they are checking out of society because society offers them no reward anymore.
there is no point in be a part of it when you can’t own a home, can’t find a wife, and can’t have kids. all of that has been priced out of the market for any guy who isn’t in the top 10% of income/wealth. average men has no chance at any of that anymore. and they see that and they are attracted to the right because the right says ‘you can and should have those things’ the left says ‘you don’t deserve them’.
Tfw when someone says men’s issues, and you think they’re gonna talk about the suicide gap or education gap or being victims of non-sexual crimes at higher rates; but then they just complain about being lonely
I think you’re hitting some good points, but the thing we need to teach these boys is that they shouldn’t be looking towards society for rewards. Society’s rewards have become a gamified rat race, so the way out is men to look inward. Not gonna lie though, that’s easier said than done…
right, let me sit around on my ass and look inwards, while my costs go up faster than my salary.
surely that will fix things.
the fact you think men need to look inwards tells me you come from a position of massive privledge and wealth. those of us who have had to struggle to pay bills, and feared being homeless don’t care about ‘looking inward’ we care about not being broke.
most young men can’t afford their bills dude. no amount of inward emotional work is going to fix that. and they are being told to fuck off for even daring to ask that maybe if they work hard the yshould be able to afford the basics of a life. a home, a family, healthcare, security and community.
and all those things are actively being denied to them by the world. college grad can’t even afford to live with roommates anymore because rents are so high and wages are so low. how is a 24 year old guy ilving at home making 35K a year supposed to feel? while the left endlessly shits on him what a loser he is for not makign 250K a year.
Though I agree it is somewhat of a privilege to have the time and security it takes to allow for self-actualization, that’s a struggle that a lot of us have to deal with, regardless of sex, gender, or sexual orientation.
it disproportionately affects men due to the gender stereotypes we have about men.
a woman living at home in a low wage job is not seen as a social failure. she’s seen as normal. because for most women the expectation is still that it’s men’s job to be the economic provider who brings in the majority of the income to the relationship. and men who are economically dependent on women are seen as failed people.
these are simple the facts on the ground. the primary ‘concern’ about young men is that they aren’t earning as much as their female peers, and are therefore not qualified to be good husbands. and that this is their own failing, as if every guy who isn’t making 200K a year is a loser. this is the social messaging young men constantly receive. whereas young women are often celebrated as’ strong and indepdendent’, even when they are economically depending on their famillies or a partner.
the genders are view very different and socially rewarded and punished according to often hypocritical standards. men were never liberated from traditional gender expectations, they still expected to adhere to them, while women are not. this obviously a huge social problem and it’s unfair. for a lot of men the juice is no longer worth the squeeze because no matter waht they do, they are seen as worthless and shitty unless they can break into that top economic strata, and by definition the vast majority can’t do that. thin
there are a million other things. like how schools are now organized to benefit women and not men. how parents tend to invest more time and resources in their female children and largely ignore and divest in their male children. the massive lack of male role models. all these things start adding up to major social changes and we are starting to see the consequences. and the consequences are largely that women are doing much better than men and that is seen as a social victory, while the men doing worse is seen as entirely their own personal fault, not the fact that society has systematically decided to boost women up over men for 20+ years now.
and the constantly popular feedback to all the systemtic, well documented, changes is simple ‘well men just need to go to therapy and then they ill magically all become good strong liberal men’. which is nothing more than a massive dismissal of the social issues that are affecting men, especially young men. the response from the liberal left is akin to a rich person telling a poor person to just have rich parents and all their money problems will be solved. it’s a clueless and stupid response that systematically denies there is any problem other than that boys are responsible for their own outcomes… but yet we decided 20 years ago for women they needed ‘help’.
so the question is, if we want a better outcome from young men, when are we going to help them? the right is capitalizing on this by acknowledging the issues, the left acts like the concept of helping men will destroy all social progress we’ve made with women, as if we can only help one sex at at time…
and the root of all of it is the shitty economy that everyone is in adamant denial about.
Not the other person, but my guess is that women have a lot more to immediately fear from the right and/or “gain” from liberals so it makes sense for them to stick with the center. Meanwhile men tend to place more value on their ability to (and be expected to) provide for themselves and their current or future families, so they care more about costs of living. Basically women are too busy running away from the psycho trying to kill them, while men have enough room to stop and say “doesn’t my life kinda suck.”
That still doesn’t make sense. Women still have to pay the same costs of living. We’re all in the same boat, trying to survive on the scraps the capitalists offer us.
I don’t have a magic “vagina pass” that makes my wage higher or rent more affordable. If I were running away from a psycho, I’d still have to somehow make ends meet while also dealing with hostile people. That’s where I get confused. Pride is one thing, but when your ability to live in society is hanging from a late-stage capitalist thread, pride is no longer the primary driver - survival itself is. Man, woman, non-binary, we’re all struggling in this same way.
If I were running away from a psycho, I’d still have to somehow make ends meet while also dealing with hostile people.
Yeah, but you’d be a lot less likely to believe the psycho has your best interests in mind. Now to be clear we’re dealing with trends here; plenty of women do in fact believe the psycho has their best interests in mind, and plenty of men don’t like the psycho even if they’re not the primary target, but the threat of being killed or locked up in a basement means you have to be more desperate (or more gullible) to believe the psycho’s words if you’re a woman. Also, for people who aren’t literally in danger of becoming homeless pride would be expected to have more effect, which will disproportionately affect men.
But that ignores the completely other side of how stupid this, in that we know- for a fact- the left is more likely to actually get cost of living down. So why are men believing exactly the opposite?
No no, the dichotomy is between liberals and conservatives here. The system has done such a good job hiding leftwing politics from people that save for a few aberrations (i.e. Mamdani) they’re just not something people think about.
they are checking out of society because society offers them no reward anymore.
there is no point in be a part of it when you can’t own a home, can’t find a wife, and can’t have kids. all of that has been priced out of the market for any guy who isn’t in the top 10% of income/wealth. average men has no chance at any of that anymore. and they see that and they are attracted to the right because the right says ‘you can and should have those things’ the left says ‘you don’t deserve them’.
How come every fucking time. Every. Fucking. Time. Every time y’all talk about “men’s issues” you talk about “how difficult it is to find a wife”
Get. Your. Own. Shit. Together. First. Then you “find a wife”
And what does “finding a wife” have to do with money? How are you “priced out of” finding a wife? “Cause all women are golddiggers” or what?
And never fucking ever has the left said “you don’t deserve to start a family”
You know what, my dude? Vote MAGA. You deserve it
Tfw when someone says men’s issues, and you think they’re gonna talk about the suicide gap or education gap or being victims of non-sexual crimes at higher rates; but then they just complain about being lonely
I think you’re hitting some good points, but the thing we need to teach these boys is that they shouldn’t be looking towards society for rewards. Society’s rewards have become a gamified rat race, so the way out is men to look inward. Not gonna lie though, that’s easier said than done…
I recently wrote a post too that touches on this topic: https://philosophyofbalance.com/blog/the-emancipation-of-men/
right, let me sit around on my ass and look inwards, while my costs go up faster than my salary.
surely that will fix things.
the fact you think men need to look inwards tells me you come from a position of massive privledge and wealth. those of us who have had to struggle to pay bills, and feared being homeless don’t care about ‘looking inward’ we care about not being broke.
most young men can’t afford their bills dude. no amount of inward emotional work is going to fix that. and they are being told to fuck off for even daring to ask that maybe if they work hard the yshould be able to afford the basics of a life. a home, a family, healthcare, security and community.
and all those things are actively being denied to them by the world. college grad can’t even afford to live with roommates anymore because rents are so high and wages are so low. how is a 24 year old guy ilving at home making 35K a year supposed to feel? while the left endlessly shits on him what a loser he is for not makign 250K a year.
How is any of that exclusive to men?
Though I agree it is somewhat of a privilege to have the time and security it takes to allow for self-actualization, that’s a struggle that a lot of us have to deal with, regardless of sex, gender, or sexual orientation.
it disproportionately affects men due to the gender stereotypes we have about men.
a woman living at home in a low wage job is not seen as a social failure. she’s seen as normal. because for most women the expectation is still that it’s men’s job to be the economic provider who brings in the majority of the income to the relationship. and men who are economically dependent on women are seen as failed people.
these are simple the facts on the ground. the primary ‘concern’ about young men is that they aren’t earning as much as their female peers, and are therefore not qualified to be good husbands. and that this is their own failing, as if every guy who isn’t making 200K a year is a loser. this is the social messaging young men constantly receive. whereas young women are often celebrated as’ strong and indepdendent’, even when they are economically depending on their famillies or a partner.
the genders are view very different and socially rewarded and punished according to often hypocritical standards. men were never liberated from traditional gender expectations, they still expected to adhere to them, while women are not. this obviously a huge social problem and it’s unfair. for a lot of men the juice is no longer worth the squeeze because no matter waht they do, they are seen as worthless and shitty unless they can break into that top economic strata, and by definition the vast majority can’t do that. thin
there are a million other things. like how schools are now organized to benefit women and not men. how parents tend to invest more time and resources in their female children and largely ignore and divest in their male children. the massive lack of male role models. all these things start adding up to major social changes and we are starting to see the consequences. and the consequences are largely that women are doing much better than men and that is seen as a social victory, while the men doing worse is seen as entirely their own personal fault, not the fact that society has systematically decided to boost women up over men for 20+ years now.
and the constantly popular feedback to all the systemtic, well documented, changes is simple ‘well men just need to go to therapy and then they ill magically all become good strong liberal men’. which is nothing more than a massive dismissal of the social issues that are affecting men, especially young men. the response from the liberal left is akin to a rich person telling a poor person to just have rich parents and all their money problems will be solved. it’s a clueless and stupid response that systematically denies there is any problem other than that boys are responsible for their own outcomes… but yet we decided 20 years ago for women they needed ‘help’.
so the question is, if we want a better outcome from young men, when are we going to help them? the right is capitalizing on this by acknowledging the issues, the left acts like the concept of helping men will destroy all social progress we’ve made with women, as if we can only help one sex at at time…
and the root of all of it is the shitty economy that everyone is in adamant denial about.
Not the other person, but my guess is that women have a lot more to immediately fear from the right and/or “gain” from liberals so it makes sense for them to stick with the center. Meanwhile men tend to place more value on their ability to (and be expected to) provide for themselves and their current or future families, so they care more about costs of living. Basically women are too busy running away from the psycho trying to kill them, while men have enough room to stop and say “doesn’t my life kinda suck.”
That still doesn’t make sense. Women still have to pay the same costs of living. We’re all in the same boat, trying to survive on the scraps the capitalists offer us.
I don’t have a magic “vagina pass” that makes my wage higher or rent more affordable. If I were running away from a psycho, I’d still have to somehow make ends meet while also dealing with hostile people. That’s where I get confused. Pride is one thing, but when your ability to live in society is hanging from a late-stage capitalist thread, pride is no longer the primary driver - survival itself is. Man, woman, non-binary, we’re all struggling in this same way.
Yeah, but you’d be a lot less likely to believe the psycho has your best interests in mind. Now to be clear we’re dealing with trends here; plenty of women do in fact believe the psycho has their best interests in mind, and plenty of men don’t like the psycho even if they’re not the primary target, but the threat of being killed or locked up in a basement means you have to be more desperate (or more gullible) to believe the psycho’s words if you’re a woman. Also, for people who aren’t literally in danger of becoming homeless pride would be expected to have more effect, which will disproportionately affect men.
But that ignores the completely other side of how stupid this, in that we know- for a fact- the left is more likely to actually get cost of living down. So why are men believing exactly the opposite?
No no, the dichotomy is between liberals and conservatives here. The system has done such a good job hiding leftwing politics from people that save for a few aberrations (i.e. Mamdani) they’re just not something people think about.