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Fortunately voting isn’t mutually exclusive to any other flavor of activism. So, unironically: yes, please do vote, as often and informed as you’re able to.
Light up some billionaire’s warehouse on the way home if you want, but voting is easier and safer than pretty much any offer method of driving some rapid reform, so start with voting, and take whatever other action you feel still needs to take place.
Lots of hate on voting lately… Why? Use every tool we’ve got.
I mostly agree. I see nothing wrong with voting, though I understand the folks who didn’t vote in the last presidential election. I don’t think voting matters all that much outside of local elections but do what you will. It’s getting a lot of hate rn because it has felt very ineffective at preventing fascism and people are seeking alternatives.
What we need is labor movement power like work stoppages, but far more organizing is needed before we can do that effectively
Absolutely, convincing liberals of this necessity is imperative
Well, according to the logic present in this very thread, some people have tried organizing, but they haven’t single handedly stopped fascism, ergo organizing labor is useless, just like voting. There’s nothing we can do that doesn’t require a large amount of people to organize and invest time, effort and money. Of all the options, voting is (because of laws) still the cheapest, most legal, least likely to get you fired option. And we can’t even manage that.
I’m sorry but jumping to ‘organizing is useless’ makes absolutely no sense.
Why do you think you even have a weekend or benefits in the first place? The gains made by the militant labor organizing in the last century.
If organizing was useless, governments wouldn’t spend all the immense time and money to break, weaken, and dissolve unions. They do so because they recognize the real threat organizing has.
I’m not saying organizing is the one thing we need. There is no singular thing. A united front is needed. Every avenue both inside and outside the system. Co-opting the Dem party to be a party for the people, outside organizations like DSA to keep politicians accountable, labor organizing to wield our collective power to ensure our demands are met, voting, coalition building, mutual aid, International organizing, ect.
This is a class war, we have no luxury of choosing a single angle of attack.
I share that frustration, but discouraging voters from showing up isn’t going to help anything: focus your anger at the actual fascists, not the ballot box.
Actually achieving some meaningful reform is a complex project that requires every tool in the box. If you run into a stripped screw, don’t get mad at the screwdriver for not working, but instead reach for your other tools to use alongside the driver. Might need to grab it with a vicegrip (like a general strike) or whack it with a hammer (like a molotov cocktail), but don’t just discard the screwdriver - the screws aren’t all stripped, and the project is a lot bigger than just the one striped screw. If the next screw is also stripped, by all means light up another, uh, hammer… but the screwdriver is the easiest and most effective option for the parts of the project that aren’t already fubar.
So… advocating for alternatives when they’re called for: absolutely necessary! Throwing the screwdriver away: unnecessary and critical error.
Unfortunately voting requires electoralist action, which takes a lot of effort and motivation from those doing it (literally year-long amount of man-hours) which absolutely is mutually exclusive with actually useful things
literally year-long amount of man-hours
What are you talking about?
The thousands of work hours spent canvassing, phone calling, fund raising etc rtc
No, we’re just talking about actually voting here. Don’t add a bunch of stuff. You don’t need to canvas to vote. And in the context of the thing written, what action do you think people bitching in this thread are genuinely going to take? How many walmart firebombers are among all the terminally online leftists here?
Propaganda. It’s easier to deactivate the opposition than to convert it.
Problem is in a lot of states voting does jack shit unless you’re on the side of the party the majority of your state votes for. In 2024, 70% of the registered voters voted and the conservatives won by a massive margin. Protests happen every once in a while here, but if you say anything at these to encourage other forms of political movement and you’re quickly shut off cause they’re afraid you’ll hurt the movement.
For me it was how the democratic establishment used all their energy on undermining the Bernie campaigns of 2016 and 2020. They litterally would rather have fascist president than seeing change.
Don’t forgot Zoran Mamdani, they would let Bloomberg split the vote and not endorse a mayoral candidate. They’d let a Trump republican win before an avowed socialist.
My GF at time was a true-blue Democrat who volunteered for her party during Bernie’s campaign, she was there for primaries. I told her there was NO WAY that the Ds would allow him to run for office.
After, she came home very upset, just devastated with what she had seen. She never told me what happened, she refused to talk to me about it. We were over shortly after
She stopped volunteering.
I encourage everyone to volunteer and see how things are done in local politics, it’s a real eye opener
the Ds would allow him to run for office.
Those "D"s are called primary voters.
Anyone who helped Trump win is not a Bernie supporter.
Those "D"s are called primary voters.
no
https://www.newsweek.com/clinton-robbed-sanders-dnc-brazile-699421
Right, the “source” being an unproven claim from disgruntled former employee Donna Brazile who ran directly to Fox News to spite CNN.
That REALLY proves that the DNC somehow forced so many more people to vote for Sanders’ opponents.
Delusional, cult-like behavior.
Why don’t you point out where Bernie says he was cheated?
Ain’t no way the ruling elite can risk any peasants actually getting the idea of taxing billionaires and holding them accountable in other ways.
In the short term with a first past the post system, harm reduction in voting D is unfortunately the way to go, but let’s not kid ourselves and think they actually want real change.
Republicans cut taxes for billionaires, because we let them take over the government.
Such bullshit. Bernie ran campaigns and lost. Apparently that makes Biden a “fascist”.
Not saying Biden was a fascist, but he was a worse candidate because he was carried up by billionaire money alone, and that gave us a worse position to win the 2020 election. Also known as risking the second term of fascist Trump.
The reason Bernie lost was because of a coordinated effort to undermine Bernie. He challenged the billionaire class with living wages, infrastructure spending and climate action. He was built on the grounds of donations avaraging 27 dollars, owned by people, not might.
He was up against 15ish bland super PAC funded candidates, also known as bootlickers. These bootlickers would eventually come together together with Obama and lick the boots of Biden right before super tuesday. Allowing establishment newspapers to spike up Biden at a pivotal moment.
I dont think you should defend a bankrupt nomination process, thats all.
Dude, Debbie Wasserman Shultz literally had to resign from the DNC chair position because of leaked emails where she was in correspondence with other DNC officials deriding the Sanders campaign and strategizing on how to undermine him and advanced Clinton’s campaign.
Remember folks, it’s always easier to break something than to build it. That’s why morons like Trump are so successful.
Agreed, but then why is the us voting public obsessed with having a candidate who says they will snap their fingers and immediately bring israel to heel, fix the economic inequalities in the system, erase the conservatives, guarantee affordable healthcare, tax billionaires, remove AIPAC, lower inflation and cure cancer in their first month of office?
Its like people dont know how the sysyem works anymore.
They don’t It’s been years of worsening public education and populist rhetoric. I’m Canadian and I literally have to explain to Americans daily how their own electoral system works.
Especially since continuing to build subjugation of a whole planet is
hardimpossible with a hollowed out industrial base
It’s even more fun when they help the fascists while attacking anyone left of Gavin Newsom.
The last time the Democrats controlled the presidency, senate and house was during Obama, and it was only for like 100 days. Thats how obamacare passed. And despite being very flawed, it is one of the biggest improvements in the quality of life of millions of people.
Most of the time, the Democrats cant pass shit, because young, leftist voters, dont vote.
But yeah, continue not voting, punish the not perfect Democrats, give absolute power to maga. Surely that will bring the proletariat revolution into existence.
If tens of millions of people suffer and die in the meantime, what can you do, thats the price of the revolution. Thankfully, your middle class white status shields you from the consequences of your virtue signaling.
Just the destruction of USAID will cause hundreds of of thousands of deaths, mostly in Africa. Millions of people have been imprisoned and deported. And in before “Obama was deporter in chief”, 95% of Obama’s deportations happened either at the border or after someone was arrested(for a different crime).
If you have a latin friend, ask them if they were afraid existing when Obama was president, in comparison to now, where people are afraid to pick up their kids from school.
It’s wild that you think strong democratic majorities will pass laws that help the working class when there are several states where this is the case and they don’t pass significant redistributive social policies.
Why can’t democratic trifecta states right now pass $25/hr minimum wage tethered to inflation? Or state run universal healthcare? Because their donor base is also composed of billionaires and cadres of business owners. What’s more after a few cycles in office, they routinely leverage information asymmetries available as part of their supposed oversight roles to make money in stocks, become exceedingly wealthy and more detached from the needs of working people.
The Democrats have exclusively run pro-business national candidates for the past 35 years. It’s naive to think without serious pressure from the Left (whether that’s internal DSA pressure or something else) they’ll put forward policies that actually help the working class. If someone doesn’t want to be in your big tent with AIPAC, pro-business sycophants you portray them as ideological purists. Unreal.
Why can’t democratic trifecta states right now pass $25/hr minimum wage tethered to inflation?
Most states with a democrat governor have 15$+ minimum wage. So the democrats have already done that. It is good enough? No, but it is better than nothing.
If someone doesn’t want to be in your big tent with AIPAC, pro-business sycophants you portray them as ideological purists.
Bernie literally almost won the democratic primary. But nowadays, not even Bernie or AOC are good enough for modern leftists, because they prefer Israel to continue existing.
I am not an american btw, but your first priority as an american should be to get rid of the literal nazis. This isnt about policies, this is about the foundation of a democratic state. This is what is at stake.
Look at Hungary. Is Magyar a good guy? No, but that was secondary to the main fucking point, which was getting rid of Orban and his cronies. This is why everyone, both left and right, supported Magyar. Will it last? Probably not, but at least maybe now Hungary can slowly become a normal country.
It’s naive to think without serious pressure from the Left
The time to reform the democratic party is during the primaries and the time to put extra pressure is when the democratic party is in a position to actually do things. Once the democratic party is in charge, we can start talking about policies(as the main issue), we can start talking about reforming the electoral “winner takes all” system, etc.
Ask yourself, where are all those student protests about Palestine nowadays? The radical leftists are the biggest opposition of the Democrat party and intentionally or unintentionally the biggest supporter of Trump. The no kings protests were the biggest protests in the history of the US and you still had tons of permanently online leftists shitting on them for some reason.
History doesnt repeat itself but it often rhymes. From the wikipedia article on the communist german party(KPD), before the nazis took over
In this period, while also opposed to the Nazis, the KPD regarded the Nazi Party as a less sophisticated and thus less dangerous fascist party than the SPD, and KPD leader Ernst Thälmann declared that “some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest [of social democrats]”.
We have been doing the “both sides are the same” since the beginning of time. But no, both sides are not the same. A shitty side that at least respects some basic democratic foundations is preferable to the literal nazis.
There is no communism, there is no democracy, there are no pro worker policies, there is no dialogue, there are no elections, if you have literal fascists in charge.
What can I say: your analysis is just wrong based on recent history, and I fundamentally don’t agree with it.
It is not a winning electoral strategy to deny that there are inherent and accelerating economic issues, being experienced by the majority of working people in this country. It’s obvious that failing to made a compelling appeal to the working class and delivering policies that continue to exacerbate wealth inequality have led to string electoral losses for Democrats. “Now is not the time” has been the same message from the Clinton wing for decades at this point.
Continuing down this path is precisely what has allowed the Right to claim a Bonapartist coalition of disgruntled, alienated working people and is marching us right down the road to Fascism.
Working people can feel the pain of economic exploitation increasing over time while they receive a lower share of wages for increased productivity. A Democratic pitch, which is based in returning to normalcy that is not livable is not a winning pitch.
Biden’s first two years were a trifecta. Why you lying?
Need a strong enough majority to override a filibuster
They haven’t had that since the 70s
No, you don’t. They blow past the filibuster (which they don’t even do any more, they “call it” with no actual filibuster every occurring) with the “nuclear option” whenever they want to. Simple majority vote.
Filibuster is not in constitution, super majority requirement is a parliamentary rule ONLY, not law… they bypass it all of the time, over 200 “exceptions” the last time I looked.
You’ve been suckered… and that’s why they do this. Most are oblivious, just how they like it
which they don’t even do any more, they “call it” with no actual filibuster every occurring)
They WOULD do it, that’s why threatening to do it actually works.
They WON’T do it, most of them can’t even stand for an hour… let alone make any real effort.
And if they did… well, that’s okay. They don’t need 5 months “recess” a year.
“oh no, that guy will talk all day.” fucking Christ
It was not a strong enough majority to push things through. And typical Republicans were being a wall
They absolutely were not, unless you know so little about how the US government works that you think a 50-50 senate split and a 6-3 Republican majority supreme court counts as a trifecta?
Trifecta has nothing to do with the Supreme Court and it doesn’t matter the size of the majority (50(+1)-50 is still a majority) just that you have one in both houses.
Trifecta = 3 branches of government. Executive, Judicial, and Legislative. It makes no more sense to break Congress up into two branches than it would to break the Executive branch up by all KF the various agencies under the president.
It was the Supreme Court that decided to overturn Row vs Wade during Biden’s term. It was the Supreme Court that decided to strike down his executive order forgiving federal student loans. Essentially the same Supreme Court that decided to hand Trump a blank note saying “do what you want” stymied the Biden administration repeatedly.
Claiming that the majority in the Senate matters for anything other than the annual reconciliation bill shows how little you know about how the Senate works. A majority does not give effective control in either chamber, though the Democrats did have the numbers to control the House. Even the “50” you claim has to include independent senators who caucased with the Democrats, not actual registered Democrats, to get there.
So like, if you just want to spread Republican propaganda about how bad the Democrats are in an attempt to get their voters to stay home on election day, you can go ahead and say stuff like that. You’re spreading lies that help conservatives.
If you want to do an actual good-faith evaluation of when the Democrats have had the power necessary to do anything, you can look back through history and find that the only period of time they have had that control in the last 50 years was when they passed the ACA, and that was only for a few months, not a full two years.
I mean, your definition does make internal sense, but that’s not a government trifecta. You can start defining things whatever you want, but please don’t get mad at others when they don’t agree with your own made up definitions.
ACA was basically a Republican policy (its literally modeled after Romneycare) and was lobbied for by Insurance companies, so of course it got passed.
And, no, I’m not spreading “republican propaganda”. Both the democrats and republicans are incapable of governing because they’re uninterested in governing. But the democrats, unlike the republicans, can be reformed away from this. Lying about when they last held power won’t help reform them out of this situation. They constantly have the ball and then do nothing because their donors want nothing to get done.
Oh I think I recognize you from arguing on Reddit many years ago. Not many people would call the ACA a Republican bill- the Massachusetts bill it was based on was still substantially different, but was written and passed by a predominanly Democrat legislature and Romney got to put his name on it because he was governor, even after he failed to cut a lot of the parts he didn’t like because they were too nice to poor people. Its absolutely silly to call it Romneycare.
Bud, you’re just wrong. It’s about having control of each step of the legislative process.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/117th_United_States_Congress
Yes, the 50-50 split SHOULD be a D majority, because VP can cast tie-breaker
There’s zero need for a super majority. They blow past that all of the time with simple majority vote. Called “nuclear option”.
Ah yes, the “nuclear option” certainly must be somethibg the government can casually undertake without consequence, right?
Just like how Lincoln lifting Habeus Corpus was a tool used for good and was never used for anything bad at any point by any future government?
Liberal simps always like to bring up the fact that Democrats have almost never had a 60 vote majority in the Senate, saying that’s why Dems can’t do anything. Yet that never seems to be a barrier to Republicans.
Can you imagine a Democratic president threatening to cut off healthcare dollars to hospitals that don’t provide trans-affirming healthcare?
The reason you can’t is the problem with the Democratic party. Republicans are willing to use every scrap of authority they have. They find creative uses for using what procedural powers they have to accomplish incredible things with just the power of the executive branch. Democrats bitch that they can’t do anything unless they have 60 votes in the Senate. There’s always some other excuse for why they can’t get something done.
Can you imagine a Democratic president threatening to cut off healthcare dollars to hospitals that don’t provide trans-affirming healthcare?
Maybe they’re looking for measures that won’t harm all of the other people in said hospitals? How the fuck can anyone be stupid enough to think this is moral or viable policy.
More specifically, this does illustrate why Democrats lose. You need to think of it more as a protest or strike. Sometimes grinding a nation to a standstill is necessary to protect rights, freedoms, or human dignity. Minority groups often have to bring entire societies to their knees in order to have a hope of having their voices heard. Every strike. Every disruptive protest. All are designed to force the majority to stop ignoring the rights and needs of the minority. Sometimes the majority has to be harmed to protect the minority.
But to liberals like yourself, it’s completely unthinkable to you to risk harming the majority to protect the lives of minorities. But ultimately that’s what every protest movement has to do - it has to cause disruption. Republicans have no problem using the healthcare of the majority to hurt minorities. They know that people like yourself will go, “well, I’m not going to speak up, I’m not one of those people. I don’t care if they come for them first. I’m not one of them, greatest good for the greatest number. If the choice is that the hospital either stops offering healthcare to a demonized minority group or stop offering healthcare to everyone, I guess we’ll just have to stop offering healthcare to the demonized minority group.”
Biden could have said, “you know what? It’s our job to provide healthcare to all Americans. Trans people have to pay taxes just like anyone else. If your state is going to start taking away the healthcare from demonized minority groups, then no more federal healthcare dollars for your state. You can have federal dollars when you stop acting like filthy animals.”
I don’t know. Ask a Republican.
We passed bills just fine for TWO HUNDRED YEARS before we ever made up this “filibuster avoidance” bullshit.
They call it the “nuclear option” for exactly this reason… weenies are scared to even discuss it. It’s not nuclear. Nothing blows up. It’s just a majority vote.
They put it to the side whenever they want, since it’s a simple parliamentary procedure. Hundreds of exceptions. Nothing blows up.
Put on your big boy pants and read about it, don’t be frightened
Just because the democrats technically have majority, doesnt mean that they do. You had people like Manchin, blocking everything.
Majority= majority.
They could have taken care of Manchin in many ways… he “took one for the team”
2021, under Biden
That’s only true if you count independent senators as Democrats for some reason.
Did you forget to edit the article before you linked it or something?
Why are you so aggressive and disingenuous? You can look at the link and see that it’s directed to #cite_note-independent-6, which states,
Both independent senators — Angus King and Bernie Sanders — have caucused with the Democratic Party since joining the Senate.
Biden didn’t fail to pass legislation because of Bernie Sanders and Angus King…
They could always have used the “nuclear option” and passed actual universal healthcare instead of our strange hybrid for-profit insurance monster under Obama, but they didn’t want to.
When Biden was the President, Ds had majority in house and senate (117th). They COULD have used the stupidly named “nuclear option” and passed universal healthcare, higher minimum wages, and more in response to the nightmarish Trump presidency
But… nah
(encourage everyone to check out the super-majority fiasco fillibuster-not-really nuclear option bullshit song and dance)
They could always have used the “nuclear option” and passed actual universal healthcare instead of our strange hybrid for-profit insurance monster under Obama, but they didn’t want to.
You know why neither side is stupid enough to do that, right?
because if to get actually pass the agenda they run on, they can’t threaten not to get it passed in the next election
what’s stupid is allowing a ‘fillibuster’ to wreck legislation.
It’s a parliamentary procedure, not even law. We can change it at ANY TIME with simple majority vote. It’s a self-imposed rule, not in the constitution, not law.
They “stupidly” skip it all of the time with legislation they want to pass. They don’t need a super majority for pay raises…
Democrats never use the powers they actually do have, to pass the changes they could pass. Why would you trust them with more power?
Democrats never use the powers they actually do have, to pass the changes they could pass. Why would you trust them with more power?
What is it they could have passed but apparently chose not to? Barely having a tenuous majority isn’t some insane advantage - we barely gave them enough power to do anything. Instead, you stupidly give more power to Republicans and then pretend both parties are the same.
I didn’t say anything about legislation.
To quote Malcom X: “It’s the ballot, or the bullet.”
We gonna have to get mean of we want it to change. Looking at the comments, we are already there.
to be fair, lemmy is already left leaning
Doesn’t anyone get tired of this childish pontificating? It’s all just a bunch of blowhard keyboard warriors.
Malcolm X, by the way, did not advocate violence against rich people. Or even really all that much violence at all. His historical legacy has been hijacked by teenage edgelords.
He believed in self defense but also advocated staying within legal bounds.
Go read the full ballot or the bullet speach and see if you still agree with your post.
Most people who read and write the comments here are frustrated because there is no known mechanism to have large scale change in the USA. Only minor victories that are easily lost to time.
Yup, no one here is burning down warehouses as far as I can tell
Thanks for pointing that out, truly revolutionary.
Is everyone lost in the sauce in these comments? The meme is about holding fascists accountable for things like authoritarian actions, not passing milquetoast policies to capitulate to their voting base when they don’t follow through on 90% of what their campaign promises were.
Talking Epstein action, state surveillance overreach, actual war crimes and unconstitutional breaches that are handwaved away or not addressed (usually strengthened or re-instituted during “progressive” times). This has been going on since the civil war, “Let’s move on and focus on the future, not hold people to standards or accountability (or the actual fucking law)”. I predict maybe 2-3 high profile cases during the next presidential term that will try to go after someone but will just be a drop in the bucket compared to what people are getting away with.
lot of “far left” on these types on this platforms, don’t go to the political pages unless you like echo chambers, i got banned from one for pointing out immigration and youth job statistics that removing illegals was helping with the lack of jobs and got banned from that one and then was accused of bigotry by otter or m-p in another. They didn’t ban me but I blocked the group cuz i felt insulted by a poor accusation, the fact theyre admins for the Canada lemmy make me wanna look elsewhere. Save your time, trying to get through to some people isn’t worth it.
It’s quick and easy to blame a specific party or whatever boogeyman du jour you want. It’s much harder to do the work and takes a lot longer to actually actively participate in supporting stronger leaders and building a better future.
I can’t and won’t comment on OP’s specific motivations, but the thing I consistently see with messages like this – no viable solutions and no practical alternatives. Just fluff and fantasy, misinformation, and over simplification, amongst other problematic issues.
Voting is basically the lowest hurdle to participate and influence political outcomes (in the USA) and yet voter turnout is shockingly low. Of course that’s going to be a big message from any party that wants to be part of the process. What this graphic specifically is doing is making it seems like that’s the ONLY messaging coming from the Democratic party. It’s the same ole song and dance as the fascists, misinformation.
Then, seeing how abyssal voter turn out is in the country, participation rates in all the other political activities is only a tiny little fraction of that. You want change? You want power? You’ll have to participate and you’ll have to persuade others, many others, to participate. You need to organize, and you need to have a plan.
Let’s say you believe the shtick that Dems “do nothing to fight back”, what things did you do to counter that? I’m sure here in the anonymity of the Lemmy, we all donated lots of money to other parties and candidates, knocked on doors and made calls on their behalf, helped support new and upcoming leaders (or stepped up ourselves) and convinced them to run for local offices so that they were in a great position to move up the chain to ever more important and influential positions, and we called our leaders from locals all the way up to federal level and let them know what issues we find important. But outside of the minuscule population on Lemmy, the US population as a whole did not. And memes laser focused on further disenfranchising people from the process definitely won’t change a thing there. In fact, that’s part of why we’re here to begin with.
Oh, but InvalidName2, YoU DiDn’t oFfEr aNy pRaCtIcAl sOlUtIoNs eItHeR, yOu’rE JuSt aS BaD.
I did, but if you didn’t pay attention, you’re not a serious person. I’d rather spend my effort donating lots of money the best candidates I can find, knocking on doors and making calls on their behalf, helping support campaigns of new and upcoming leaders, and talking to my elected officials from locals all the way up to federal level and let them know what issues I find important, and numerous other activities that align with my political goals. AND I’m also helping other people get involved where they can, supporting local organizations to amplify that support, and so on.
It’s almost like you have to win the election…
They did in 2020, and then they did nothing to prevent fascism. The fascist did not face serious detrimental consequences of any kind. In fact they actively coveted and aided Israeli fascist which harmed their ability to get reelected.
Did Biden win the senate? Did he appoint the judges for the supreme court? I agree that he mishandled the conflict in Israel, but I not sure what Biden could have done to stop the abolishment of Roe v Wade as an example. If anything, he did a good job bringing us back to some sense of stability after Trump’s 1st term ended in disaster. We should critize the Democrats for their mismanagement in that goal, but this consensus that Republicans and Democrats are exactly the same I’ve been seeing everywhere is ridiculous. It’s a false equivalence fallacy
Did Biden win the senate?
It seems that now that Trump is president, what congress says doesn’t matter at all and the President can do whatever.
Did he appoint the judges for the supreme court?
He could’ve expanded it, like FDR threatened to do and forced the court to let him do some of the New Deal reforms they were previously opposed to. Biden never lifted a finger with regards to that. This also could’ve maintained Roe v Wade.
I agree that he mishandled the conflict in Israel,
- it’s a genocide
- “mishandled” is a really egregious weasel word for “gave unconditional support to the government even as approval ratings slid down the drain”
The problem is if Biden had done this everything he did would have been struck down why it works for Trump is because Republican Congress doesn’t stand up or have a spine when it’s a Republican leader
You’re literally dragging Democrats through the mud for the fact that Republicans won’t hold each other accountable
Now don’t get me wrong there’s a lot Democrats need to be held accountable for but I just want it to be things that they earned
So the Democratic Party is structurally incapable of pushing through the reforms and new programs that are necessary to stop fascism? Why should people keep being married to that party instead of supporting any other effort, and pay no rhetorical support nor lip service to a party that also facilitates fascism?
The democrats didn’t have to play by trump’s rules, but they had to dismantle the foundations he had put in place during his term. I mean, they didn’t even strengthen rules to avoid another Jan 6th. Didn’t protect the freedom of the press. Didn’t strengthen campaign finance laws. Didn’t approach voting reform. Didn’t ban gerrymandering. Nothing.
Democratic politicians (as opposed to Democrat Party politicians) seem to think you defeat the other side by winning elections, but it’s impossible to win all the elections. At some point you lose, and all you’ve got left is your systematic safeguards to keep your democracy. You must bolster the safeguards while you can, even if it might work against you in the short term.
The problem is if Biden had done this everything he did would have been struck down why it works for Trump is because Republican Congress doesn’t stand up or have a spine when it’s a Republican leader
That’s why you keep trying. That’s what Republican presidents do. When they want to do something by executive order, they have their lawyers come up with a dozen different ways to accomplish the same goal using various provisions in different laws. They implement one. If SCOTUS strikes it down, they just move on to another method from the list. It takes years for the court to strike it down, and in the meantime they keep doing what they wanted to do.
Now don’t get me wrong there’s a lot Democrats need to be held accountable for but I just want it to be things that they earned
They earn our vote when they aren’t shitheels for fascists.
I’m curious by your last statement if you have a problem with Democrat candidates should have to earn a vote from us.
Trump has been doing everything via executive orders which is why he has been able to bypass everything. I do agree that executive orders need to be nerfed if we ever get out of this mess. The problem with Democrats is that they play by the rules and Republicans don’t, thus why Biden never spammed executive orders. Though it might all come back to haunt Trump eventually since there’s thousands of lawsuits filed against him for all the times he misused executive orders. That’s just wishful thinking on my part though.
“Mishandled” was perhaps oversimplifying a little too hard, but it’s not like the genocide was strictly committed by the Biden Administration. Biden’s sin was only making a public statement for Israel to “improve the humanitarian conditions in Gaza” and then continuing to send military aid anyway.Though it might all come back to haunt Trump eventually since there’s thousands of lawsuits filed against him for all the times he misused executive orders. That’s just wishful thinking on my part though.
He’ll die before any of those consequences matter. His fascist successor will probably rinse the next Democratic nominee because the Democrats don’t intend to change anything or make any of the changes you’re talking about happen. It’s a million times more realistic to hope that the United States splits into multiple incoherent territories that are no longer able to terrorize the rest of the world than hope the Democratic Party suddenly turns around and become the opposite of what it has been during essentially its whole existence (maybe except for the minute that Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights act).
My problem is not with the individual my issue is with the deomcratic party. You are correct that there wasn’t anything Biden could actually do on his own. It would take a collective effort and likely military cooperation. It would cause political mayhem and be detrimental to the country as a whole and possibly destroyed the democratic party. It could prevent fascism though. I’m not saying any of this is easy or legal but it could have prevented fascism. Instead they did nothing of consequence.
I am personally of the opinion that fascism is incapable of being prevented through official means under capitalist liberal democracy so everything I say here is effectively meaningless. I’m sort of arguing that people in a system incapable of stopping fascism should have just done it anyway. Point is, you either have to accept that the democrats did nothing to stop fascism or that capitalist liberal democracy is incapable of stopping it and should be abandoned. Assuming you agree that the Trump administration is fascist.
You would probably refer to me as an authoritarian yeah but I think the term is meaningless. As far as I’m concerned all states are authoritarian and my endgoal is the dissolution of all states.
Edit: Roe v Wade should have been codified far before they had the chance to dismantle it but the democrats used it like a carrot on a stick.
Contrary to popular belief, Biden (as president,) was in fact Garlands boss.
Yes? The president is supposed to be fairly hands off, but when you have an FBI director who thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to wait a year until there’s a special prosecutor to get some of our most sensitive documents back, it’s probably well past time to ask him to resign and get someone who’ll do the damn job.
I guess Democratic presidents only ever nominating Republicans to be head of the FBI was a bad idea.
Damn, the good cop just keep stumbling into all these bad ideas! I feel bad for them 😕
Yes, they had both chambers of the house for the first part of his presidency.
Also, yes he appointed a scotus judge and a few others, but he didn’t pack the courts like he could have, and dems in both houses did fuck all to stop Trump or even solidify the voting rights act (which is now in the shadow docket chopping block.)
Jan 6 was basically our version of the beer hall putsch.
And fuck everyone who said I was wrong about that.
I agree that he mishandled the conflict in Israel, but I not sure what Biden could have done to stop the abolishment of Roe v Wade as an example.
You’re just not thinking as creatively as a Republican. That’s the main problem with shit libs like Biden. They’re not willing to be creative and use the actual authority they do have. They demand more power while not responsibly using the power they do have. They just do nothing and bitch that they don’t have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. People floated all sorts of options for Biden to protect abortion rights after Roe fell, using just the power of the presidency, no action required by Congress. Because he’s a shit lib, he decided to do nothing instead.
Among those things proposed were:
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Offering abortion services on US military bases in states were abortion is illegal. Either by military doctors or by private groups hosted on military bases.
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Put protection in place on federal data sharing with local and state police to restrict its use for enforcing anti-abortion laws.
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Put in vending machines in post offices selling abortion pills OTC.
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Restricting funding to states that restrict abortion.
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Come up with many tactics like these. If SCOTUS rules against it, adjust the tactic slightly and try it again with something different. SCOTUS can only move so quickly, and it would take years for them to strike down any particular scheme.
These are the kinds of things Republicans do when they control the White House. Democrats don’t show this level of creativity. Instead they just bitch about not having a 60 vote majority in the Senate.
Yeah, I agree that the Biden Administration could have tried to do more to stop it. I use Roe v Wade as an example though since it’s commonly used for the argument that Democrats and Republicans are the same…even though Biden wasn’t the one who overturned it and was done by the supreme court that was appointed by Trump during his first term
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they did nothing to prevent fascism. The fascist did not face serious detrimental consequences of any kind.
That is the trumpiest and scariest line of thinking possible. Elections are not meant to punish the losing side.
The very fact the Dems won in an election is a demonstration that they weren’t battling fascists yet.
This is crazy dumb.
The very facy the Dems won in an election is a demonstration that they weren’t battling fascists yet.
Trump and crew literally attempted to overturn the election and the Dems did next to nothing. If we can’t recognize fascist actors before they’ve fully seized control of government then we will never have effective resistance to these types of movements.
Trump and crew literally attempted to overturn the election and the Dems did next to nothing
Are you forgetting how almost everyone who stormed the Capitol was arrested?
Politically, they Impeached trump and only craven Republicans saved him.
The rest is supposed to be on the voters, more than half of whom decided they were okay with what had happened. As is their unfortunate democratic right, that’s literally how it works.
Useless pawns. The man who organized it is now POTUS
Like I said:
Politically, they Impeached trump and only craven Republicans saved him.
You know what could have given trump problems? More Dems in the Senate either time he was Impeached!
To be clear: they didn’t convict because he was leaving office in a few days anyway. because there was no need for a political solution when the doj can just do what it exists to do.
there was no need to impeach him at that point.
Hey, you know, it might be political if you don’t suck trump off.
Maybe you should get on that. wouldn’t want to be political.
(Fun fact, not doing something because it might be political is a political act, coward.)
That is the trumpiest and scariest line of thinking possible. Elections are not meant to punish the losing side.
The department of justice is supposed to enforce the laws of this country.
And yes, you fucking coward, that includes arresting, trying and convicting an insurrectionist leader who tried to take over our country.
Now go ahead, explain how that’s “political” and why we can’t have justice.
They weren’t the losing side, they were the side that committed crimes. Punishing criminals for their crimes isn’t a step too far. The mere fact that wealthy powerful people are not punished for their crimes is the fucking problem. That’s not a feature of democracy. That’s a failure of democracy.
Fascist should not be treated the same as a normal political opponent. You NEED to purge them from your government as soon as possible. You can spot proto-fascists, it is possible. Why in gods green earth would you wait until they have established power to challenge them, that’s stupid as hell. I’m sorry if it disturbs your liberal sensibilities but fascists deserve to be oppressed. They won’t hesitate to oppress you when they get power
Unfortunately, everyone can call anyone a fascist. That’s the entire problem.
Any system wherein one group can just dismantle another because of their politics will be abused. If whatever magical law/mechanism your nonsense required existed and had been used after the 2020 election, trump’s successor would simply have done the same thing to the Democrats next time but we’d be even worse off as there would be no constraints on their power and no viable opposition, unlike the Dems who now stand a Puncher’s chance in the goddamn Senate.
Being the good guy is difficult but the road you propose inexorably leads to authoritarianism.
I get that politics is slow and boring but this isn’t a video game.
Pacifism is not a virtue in and of itself. These people are going to murder me and the people who are supposed to prevent that have done nothing of value. I’m sorry your precious liberal values stop you from defending yourself. If liberal democracy can do nothing to prevent fascism then liberal democracy should be replaced.
my other comment
My problem is not with the individual my issue is with the deomcratic party. You are correct that there wasn’t anything Biden could actually do on his own. It would take a collective effort and likely military cooperation. It would cause political mayhem and be detrimental to the country as a whole and possibly destroyed the democratic party. It could prevent fascism though. I’m not saying any of this is easy or legal but it could have prevented fascism. Instead they did nothing of consequence.
I am personally of the opinion that fascism is incapable of being prevented through official means under capitalist liberal democracy so everything I say here is effectively meaningless. I’m sort of arguing that people in a system incapable of stopping fascism should have just done it anyway. Point is, you either have to accept that the democrats did nothing to stop fascism or that capitalist liberal democracy is incapable of stopping it and should be abandoned. Assuming you agree that the Trump administration is fascist.
You would probably refer to me as an authoritarian yeah but I think the term is meaningless. As far as I’m concerned all states are authoritarian and my endgoal is the dissolution of all states.
Edit: Roe v Wade should have been codified far before they had the chance to dismantle it but the democrats used it like a carrot on a stick.
for added detail
I understand not wanting to do violence, trust me I do. I hope I never have to hurt anyone in my life, so far I haven’t done so physically or on purpose. It does need to be done though. We are having violence done to us and it is okay to respond violently.
You would probably refer to me as an authoritarian yeah
You are correct
And the answer to rising fascism is not trying to replace a popular authoritarian with an unpopular one.
I agree, the goal would be the authority of workers to be popular first.
Then you expose your utter lack of understanding of what the term “authoritarian” means.
Violence is not inherently authoritarian. Violence is a valid means of self defense against those who are violent.
Or do you wish to try and say that anarchists are authoritarian?
Unfortunately, everyone can call anyone a fascist. That’s the entire problem.
Its not. There are actual academic definitions for what a fascist is. Calling someone a fascist doesn’t mean they meet any of the criteria.
The very fact the Dems won in an election is a demonstration that they weren’t battling fascists yet.
Liberal’s inability to recognise fascism until after the fact is part of the reason why liberals are so ineffective in the face of it.
Just like in Hungary this week?
This week is definitely after the fact of Orban’s 16 years in office.
The very fact the Dems won in an election is a demonstration that they weren’t battling fascists yet.
This you?
You don’t believe Hungary was battling fascism by virtue of them being defeated in an election.
Could you expand a little on why you believe Hungary, having an election, shows Liberals efficacy against fascism? While also believing that Dems, winning an election, shows they weren’t battling fascism yet.
The won after 16 years of corrupt rule. Hardly a shining example.
That remains to be seen. First, a conservative defeated Orban, not someone liberal let alone progressive. But until Orban is in a jail cell, it remains to be seen whether the new guys actually intend to battle fascism. Or will they declare “it’s time to move on” and let the fascists off the hook, thus ensuring they have another chance at it?
Just because a fascist hasn’t been completely successful left that doesn’t mean they’re not a fascist. Trump literally staged an insurrection. The fuck bullshit is this.
They committed treason and tried to overturn a free and fair election. They should have been given a kangaroo court show trial and publicly hanged on the national mall for their crimes.
The assumption that the Democrats aren’t fascist is why the cycle remains unbroken
They’re all corrupt. Just ask the dead Palestinians
Unfortunately what it really resolves to (and always has) is us, the people,
Tap for spoiler
Being forced to solve the problem
Democrats say vote, you don’t, they don’t get power, they can’t do shit, you blame them for asking you to vote, you don’t do it again, it’s everyone else’s fault but yours.
“But I voted once in 2012, and it clearly didn’t help, therefore the whole concept of democracy should be abandoned”I voted dumbass, it didn’t fucking matter and it never will because voting can’t stop fascism. Liberal democracy does not have an internal route for stopping fascists. It has failed to do so in every historical moment where it had the chance.
you’re right
Thanks, that means a lot
If only you had an ounce of self-awareness…
Yep. In order for the Dems to make progress they need more than a seat at the conservative table.
They tampered with the ballot box. If they won’t listen to the soap box, The only box left is the ammo box.
You forgot jury box! Everybody look up “jury nullification”.
Ok, “Stop the Steal” MAGA dumbass.
The only box left is the ammo box.
You’re not doing shit, keyboard warrior.
The only way forward is to liquidate the billionaires as a class.
