Mark the thread. My record stands and and disagreeing typically has ended with those being in the wrong side of things.

I’m not here to tell you things pleasurable to your senses.

I don’t think I am. Just mark the convo and come back to it.

I’m gaming out the realistic consequences of what a law will mean. It has nothing to do whatsoever if you approve if these companies or not to try and understand the consequences of what will happen if a law like this passes. You don’t get to pick or choose if the speech is from an LLM or a company that gets limited or from an individual. There is no difference from a legal perspective.

And this law and approach to limiting speech to “protect people” from the stupid consequences of their own action, they aren’t new. And we already know the consequences. Large corporate entities will just get around them or pay an inconsequential fine, and individuals will have their rights curtailed as a result

The entire thread here is falling for an incredibly obvious astroturfing campaign because they associate LLMs with big bad corporations and the real consequences these bad companies have wreaked. But limiting free speech on the internet won’t stop them, what it will stop is our ability to communicate and resist them.

You aren’t going to get to have it both ways. I promise you, what you are advocating for is such a profound disaster and this whole thing is being astroturfed by tech companies to goad you into limiting your own speech.

Wikipedia, Google, chatgpt etc are not legal authorities or legal professionals.

Yes. And neither are LLMs or their derivatives.

The reason it’s dangerous to get legal or health information from a chatbot is the same reason you wouldn’t want to randomly trust reddit.

And yet people do, and we accept that as a necessary consequence of maintaining free speech as a principal.

The exact arguments being accepted in this thread are the same which led directly to crackdowns in Hungary, China, and Russia.

If you are okay with limiting and regulating LLMs as a form of speech, I promise it’s your speech which will end up limited, and a very small number of companies will control all speech on the internet. You should stop.

Let’s swap out a chatbot with a sloptuber on YouTube making up stuff about sovereign citizen nonsense. How about then.

That’s a totally irrelevant comparison. There is no equivalent publisher of the law to the US House of reps. Nothing the Wikipedia publishes has legal bearing; Everything the house of Reps publish does have legal bearing.

I promise you, the result of this will be unlimited free speech for corporations and their LLMs, with limited and regulated free speech for you. Save or favorite the comment.

It’s the same “protect the children” anti free speech advocacy in a different wrapper, but more appealing to this audience because “llm bad”.

They’re using your emotional response to not liking LLMs as a tool to trick you into giving away your rights.

Itt thread: People with absolutely no fucking clue about what the consequences of their emotional response of “ai bad” will actually result in.

Wikipedia isn’t giving you advice, it’s giving you information. There is a big difference between me taking information and forming an opinion, versus being given an opinion by a system that is responding to a specific situation explained to it.

Okay lets try this then:

Chat bots aren’t giving you advice, it’s giving you information. There is a big difference between me taking information and forming an opinion, versus being given an opinion by a system that is responding to a specific situation explained to it.

Show me the difference.

Also, people get in trouble for giving legal advice,

No, they don’t, unless they are genuinely misrepresenting their positions. Sovcit influencers are well within their rights to make up all kinds of gobbly-gookey-garbage pseudo-legal advice.

People who get in trouble are those that follow the gobbly-gookey-garbage pseudo-legal advice.

I don’t think you are wrong, but again, thats not the case.

You’re making an argument about speech here.

Lets say you make a fan website based entirely on fine tuned LLM which acts and responds as James Spader from Boston legal. Are you liable if a user of that website construes that speech as legal advice?

If you are willing to give up access to speech so easily, I have almost no hope for Americans in the near future.

What laws like this do is create an incredibly high pass filter to in positions of established power. Its literally suicidal in regards to freedom of speech on the internet.

The right answer is that if you are dumb enough to have gotten your legal advice from an AI hallucination of James Spader, you get to absorb those consequences. The wrong answer is to tell people they aren’t allowed to build fan websites of James Spader giving questionable legal advice.

Wikipedia doesn’t give “legal advice”, it has information about these laws, with the sources cited.

That is very different than asking LLM anything and it throws you random bullshit from unknown sources, with no easy way to verify where it is from or if it is at all accurate.

It seems like your argument is that because Wikipedia “gets it right” and has cited sources, it isn’t liable? Which I promise, is not how liability works.

What if it was Wikipedia versus “Some random sovcit facebook post” then? Is the Sovcit post liable because its sources are bullshit? Since there sources are random bullshit and or unknown, do they absorb liability? Again, its the same case, that is not how liability works.

People are going to have to acknowledge you can’t have it both ways.

Also…

with no easy way to verify where it is from or if it is at all accurate.

C’mon. Plenty of LLM’s can also hallucinate sources which are easily verified. And like with Wikipedia, one could go check them.

based and jillpilled

I mean.

Is the wikipedia responsible for you reading an article about a law and then taking that as legal advice?

[Edit: if you are downvoting this, downvote away, but you owe an argument below as to why. I promise this exact argument will come up in the courts over this issue]

I think hedonism is important, but it comes at a cost. The candle the burns twice as bright and all that. At the same time if you never fuck around, you’ll never find out.

I think far too often young people go through life thinking they already know who they are, instead of treating life as an opportunity to find out who they are. They become calcified, ossified in their beliefs about their own identity, a constant and repeated telling themselves of who they are in an effort to believe these things.

An alternative approach is to try to break down who you are, repeatedly and continuously. To try new things, to change the situation. Leave a city without warning and move somewhere you don’t know the language. Abandon your belongings, your phone, your identity and start over. Change the situation entirely. Begin to understand what is you and what is the world. If you move from place to place, and you find yourself always confronted by the same types of people, maybe you are seeing a reflection of something you are bringing with you from place to place.

There is a very western identity of “knowing” who you are while simultaneously having done no exploration of who that person might be. I find it very curious.

Ensenada is a gem.

Instead it became the only place consistently posting trustworthy information I could actually access. This became personally relevant when Trump threatened to invade Greenland, which is the kind of sentence I never expected to type and yet here we are. It would be funny if I wasn’t a tiny bit concerned that my new home was going to get a CIA overnight regime change special in the middle of the night.

It was somewhere in the middle of DMing with someone who had forgotten more about Greenland than I would ever know and someone who lived close to an RAF base in the UK that it clicked. This was what they had been talking about. Actual human beings were able to find each other and ask direct questions without this giant mountain of bullshit engagement piled on top of it. Meta or Oracle or whoever owns TikTok this week couldn’t stop me.

I never expected to find my news from strangers on a federated social network that half the internet has never heard of. I never expected a lot of things. But there’s something quietly beautiful about a place where people just… share what they know. No brand deals, no engagement metrics, no algorithm nudging you toward rage. Just someone who spent twenty years studying Arctic policy posting a thread at 2 AM because they think you should understand what’s happening. It’s the internet I was promised in 1996. It only took thirty years and the complete collapse of American journalism to get here.

So, a few things. One, I appreciate the authors evolution on this, but I also think for anyone who lived through the US’s campaigns in the war on terror, on resistance movements like BLM, Dakota pipeline, Occupy, Me Too, on and on…

The American (and often global) experience is a eventual experience of realizing you are being lied to and finding a way to the truth. For me it was being enlisted and finding Democracy Now! because it was a show I could download on an mp3 players and put on mini-disks when I was preparing for underways.

The same sentiment that the author is appreciating is one that some people in the 90’s got when they first had access to the internet. That kids in the 2000’s felt when they found alternative media (DN!, others, many coming from the WTO protests of the 90’s), that kids in the mid-2000’s felt when they found social media, when kids in the 2010’s found the second wave of social media, when kids in the 2020’s found the fediverse, and on and on.

If the cat is this worried, you should be this worried.

I saw this:

and I thought… yeah no need.