Melllvar

• The only material thing it seems to do is create a new private cause of action that would allow anyone to challenge voter rolls. What does that look like in practice? The proposition text is silent on that.

• It says the government shall use “best efforts” to verify citizenship using various records and databases. That’s an unreasonably low standard and an unreasonably vague process.

Anyone else think that he says “Pope,” like he’s speaking to someone named Pope?

“Under Construction”

“Best viewed in Netscape Navigator 3.0 or higher”

“An error has occurred in the script on this page.”

You’re hired.

Your neighbor’s open wifi.

No matter how well you understand the passage of time in the abstract it’s a shock the first time you meet a full grown adult, with their own keys and everything, but you can remember what you were doing in the year they were born.

I don’t think you understand what “mass murder” means.

But that’s not what it means to the public

I know that. That’s why I’m saying something.

Maybe Sean Spicer will take the job back? Someone check the bushes.

It seems like you’re advocating mass murder.

I’m saying that the bombing, etc. of Nazi Germany was a justifiable level of force under the circumstances. I’m splitting hairs and making a big deal over the difference between “force” and “violence”. I think it’s important to know exactly where that line is so as to avoid stepping over it, so I’m not just being intransigent and clinging to a minor point here.

The guillotine symbolizes to me a clear stepping over of the line from justified force to mob violence. And I think we would be better off if everyone shared my opinion.

It looks like you ninja-edited in the second part of your comment. I was responding to the original that only had quotes of prior comments and nothing else.

was it a mistake to bomb, kill, and invade nazi Germany?

No. But it would be a mistake to start bombing political rallies today, for example.

I don’t feel like you’re putting in the same effort I am in having a sincere discussion.

revolting against the rich

But a guillotine is not a weapon of war. It’s not even something that the powerless can use against the powerful. Quite the opposite, actually.

Which makes the guillotine is a terrible symbol for a revolution. Not only is the symbolism ahistorical, but the actual history directly contradicts the supposed symbolism. The modern people who invoke the guillotine as a symbol of revolution are making the exact same mistake that the French Revolutionaries made.

So why not use a symbol from a successful example? Why use a symbol from an example we should avoid repeating at almost any cost? I think it’s because most people see the guillotine as a symbol for retribution against the ruling class.

Being stubborn about using the original meaning of things isn’t helpful, it’s ignorant of the current meaning.

OK. In this context, what does the guillotine symbolize if not the mass execution of political opponents?

If eating an apple fits the definition of violence, then it’s a poor definition.

That’s an interesting angle. I had thought the OP was talking about billionaires and oligarchs, a few thousand people tops. But you’re talking about an entire political bloc consisting of tens of millions of people.

But as a symbol it current represents the working class revolting against the rich.

Only to those who are ignorant of its history. And you know what they say about people who are ignorant of history.

The problem that I’m getting at is that it works both ways, not that it never works.