In a similar vein Walter from breaking bad, though that makes less sense. Tony soprano was at least a charismatic sociopath, Walt was just an asshole
Also the classic nerd version, Rick from Rick and Morty. Bojack horseman too, which is extra funny because the show eventually called this out (in a way that almost certainly went over the head of some of the people who idealized him)
Bojack horseman too, which is extra funny because the show eventually called this out (in a way that almost certainly went over the head of some of the people who idealized him)
The thing with Bojack that I think is really poignant, though, is that I think that the people who idolize him don’t do so because they see in Bojack somebody they want to be, but because they see somebody they already are. Bojack is a canary in the coal mine to the depressive viewer. “If Bojack can pull through this, maybe I can, too.”
As a character, Bojack isn’t a goal to achieve; he’s a warning. If you treat everyone around you like shit, you’re going to find yourself all alone in your darkest moments. Bojack serves as a reminder that sometimes personal redemption has an expiration date; the longer you wait to correct the wrongs of your past, the more Sarah Lynns will come and go through your life. Bojack shows the viewer that it’s never too late to change, but that there are consequences to waiting; you can’t wallow in pity and self-loathing forever, and you’re not the only one who’s affected by the way you treat yourself.
I’m sure a lot of people don’t make it through the show to really get all that, though. Which is a shame, because I think Bojack tells an incredibly beautiful story that gets missed by many.
Bojack is a great show because it highlights so many forms of depression and destructive behavior. Everyone in that show has problems, even Mr Peanutbutter, who I think importantly shows you can be a flawed person while most people love you and you’re usually happy.
Seeing Bojack act out in so many destructive ways gave me an objective view of a lot of behaviors in myself and it led to me getting help for my major depression. I lead a very different life today thanks to the realistic depictions of broken characters in that show.
Which is a huge shame, because doing what you want without much worry about consequences is actually super doable WHILE still caring about other people
Not if you’ve been taught that everything is a zero-sum game, which apparently many people believe, especially in the States. If you believe that one person gaining something necessarily means that someone else loses something to an equal or greater degree, caring about other people inherently means having to compromise on your own happiness.
Of course it becomes a lot easier if you believe that it’s possible to win together and that giving a little can make a huge difference in someone’s day.
Yeah true, and I think that makes him more authentic tbh. When I worked with domestic violence situations the perpetrators often hit the same vibe, super charismatic and many people around would second guess claims against them. but underneath they had serious anger issues that made them increasingly assholes and eventually straight up dangerous during periods of high stress. The charisma is a cloak that takes a lot of effort. That’s what people ignore with the character and irl too, they rationalize it away to try and make sense of caring about a person who is objectively shitty
God I love the sopranos, I wish I had time to rewatch that glorified crew
Bojack isn’t just depressed. He’s almost certainly got CPTSD, possibly with a personality disorder (HPD feels right but I haven’t watched since the finale was new). His life sucks because he keeps giving in to his worse instincts and desires.
Hrs very relatable as someone who struggles with CPTSD, and had to learn how to do healthy and responsible things instead of just whatever my brain says.
But fundamentally as a character he represents the failure state of managing trauma. He keeps trying and he keeps failing harder and harder, but never seeks the real help he needs or learns to have a setback without spiraling out of control and hurting someone else, usually pretty bad. Hell, he keeps thinking that dependants will make him better and then damages them because of course they won’t.
Maybe I’m media illiterate but when I watched BB I could not follow Walt at all. Like he did the thing, he got the money, then he’s like more meth Jesse we need to cooooook out of nowhere. Were there hints that I just missed that he was going down that path? Because every time he tripled down it felt like it was out of nowhere.
power corrupts. as he amasses more power in the criminal underworld he believes himself to be better than the people around him, that he can change the corrupt system from the inside. it’s not until hank dies that he actually realises what he’s been doing, but at that point it’s already too late.
Also scenes like when he’s ordering his son to drink more just because Hank told him it was a bit much. We’re seeing that Walter will hurt anyone, including his family, when his ego feels threatened.
Walt was on an ego trip the entire time - the money was an excuse but the feeling of being in power and in control was always the real reason for his actions. Remember that he torched some guy’s car and turned down a generous job offer for personal, functionally petty reasons before he’d started cooking. You could argue that the offer was patronizing, but if his concern was really about taking care of his family instead of wanting to feel like he was the big guy in charge of things would he really have said no?
In a similar vein Walter from breaking bad, though that makes less sense. Tony soprano was at least a charismatic sociopath, Walt was just an asshole
Also the classic nerd version, Rick from Rick and Morty. Bojack horseman too, which is extra funny because the show eventually called this out (in a way that almost certainly went over the head of some of the people who idealized him)
The thing with Bojack that I think is really poignant, though, is that I think that the people who idolize him don’t do so because they see in Bojack somebody they want to be, but because they see somebody they already are. Bojack is a canary in the coal mine to the depressive viewer. “If Bojack can pull through this, maybe I can, too.”
As a character, Bojack isn’t a goal to achieve; he’s a warning. If you treat everyone around you like shit, you’re going to find yourself all alone in your darkest moments. Bojack serves as a reminder that sometimes personal redemption has an expiration date; the longer you wait to correct the wrongs of your past, the more Sarah Lynns will come and go through your life. Bojack shows the viewer that it’s never too late to change, but that there are consequences to waiting; you can’t wallow in pity and self-loathing forever, and you’re not the only one who’s affected by the way you treat yourself.
I’m sure a lot of people don’t make it through the show to really get all that, though. Which is a shame, because I think Bojack tells an incredibly beautiful story that gets missed by many.
Bojack is a great show because it highlights so many forms of depression and destructive behavior. Everyone in that show has problems, even Mr Peanutbutter, who I think importantly shows you can be a flawed person while most people love you and you’re usually happy.
Seeing Bojack act out in so many destructive ways gave me an objective view of a lot of behaviors in myself and it led to me getting help for my major depression. I lead a very different life today thanks to the realistic depictions of broken characters in that show.
I think that people may admire/covet the super-power of doing what you want without caring about other people or being afraid of consequences.
Which is a huge shame, because doing what you want without much worry about consequences is actually super doable WHILE still caring about other people
Not if you’ve been taught that everything is a zero-sum game, which apparently many people believe, especially in the States. If you believe that one person gaining something necessarily means that someone else loses something to an equal or greater degree, caring about other people inherently means having to compromise on your own happiness.
Of course it becomes a lot easier if you believe that it’s possible to win together and that giving a little can make a huge difference in someone’s day.
siiigh the ’ “prisoner’s dillema” being taught in elementary schools needs to be a thing everywhere’ thing again?.. TT
Only if you’re not a sociopath whose wants to directly against the well-being of others
Agree with your points but I will say that Tony’s charisma seems to wane by the end of the series. Seasons 1-3 Tony 100% charismatic sociopath.
Yeah true, and I think that makes him more authentic tbh. When I worked with domestic violence situations the perpetrators often hit the same vibe, super charismatic and many people around would second guess claims against them. but underneath they had serious anger issues that made them increasingly assholes and eventually straight up dangerous during periods of high stress. The charisma is a cloak that takes a lot of effort. That’s what people ignore with the character and irl too, they rationalize it away to try and make sense of caring about a person who is objectively shitty
God I love the sopranos, I wish I had time to rewatch that glorified crew
The show also goes out of its way to show you how phony the gangsters are. Especially in concerns to them being Italian.
Bojack is relatable. He’s just super duper depressed.
Bojack isn’t just depressed. He’s almost certainly got CPTSD, possibly with a personality disorder (HPD feels right but I haven’t watched since the finale was new). His life sucks because he keeps giving in to his worse instincts and desires.
Hrs very relatable as someone who struggles with CPTSD, and had to learn how to do healthy and responsible things instead of just whatever my brain says.
But fundamentally as a character he represents the failure state of managing trauma. He keeps trying and he keeps failing harder and harder, but never seeks the real help he needs or learns to have a setback without spiraling out of control and hurting someone else, usually pretty bad. Hell, he keeps thinking that dependants will make him better and then damages them because of course they won’t.
I’m distressed by the fact that I guessed what ‘H’ means in that abbreviation — despite English not being my native language.
Maybe I’m media illiterate but when I watched BB I could not follow Walt at all. Like he did the thing, he got the money, then he’s like more meth Jesse we need to cooooook out of nowhere. Were there hints that I just missed that he was going down that path? Because every time he tripled down it felt like it was out of nowhere.
power corrupts. as he amasses more power in the criminal underworld he believes himself to be better than the people around him, that he can change the corrupt system from the inside. it’s not until hank dies that he actually realises what he’s been doing, but at that point it’s already too late.
…and then the season 6 finale ruined the point.
White’s whole thing was that he wanted power, not just money.
Also scenes like when he’s ordering his son to drink more just because Hank told him it was a bit much. We’re seeing that Walter will hurt anyone, including his family, when his ego feels threatened.
Walt was on an ego trip the entire time - the money was an excuse but the feeling of being in power and in control was always the real reason for his actions. Remember that he torched some guy’s car and turned down a generous job offer for personal, functionally petty reasons before he’d started cooking. You could argue that the offer was patronizing, but if his concern was really about taking care of his family instead of wanting to feel like he was the big guy in charge of things would he really have said no?
There were several hints, but they weren’t super obvious and I don’t think I caught many of them until rewatching the show.