Yeah. I mean. That’s just not what a class traitor is. Management serves a function that would exist whether or not there was a bourgeoisie. Workers are capable of choosing when they need a management function (coordination, longer term planning, etc) to exist within their cooperative structures and the people who energize that management function are doing actual work that has value.
Yes, the bourgeoisie convinced many managers to become class traitors for a slice of the pie, but it’s not inherent to the role like it is for cops or imperial soldiers.
You’re confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs. The meme specifies middle management, not coordinators, longer term planners, etc… Not all work requires management, and not certainly bourgeoisie protectors.
Middle management is explicitly not the task masters that supervise workers and police their behavior and explicitly not the c-suite of do-nothing bourgeoisie soothsayers. It’s quite explicitly the group of people that analyze the organization, improve safety and training, handle worker complaints, plan things, evaluate decisions that impact the collective, etc.
Middle management absolutely includes coordinator functions, planning functions, etc.
I’m not confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs, I am saying that the work that middle.managemrnt does in bourgeois corporations includes much of the same work that would be needed in a large-scale workers cooperative.
I’m not confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs, I am saying that the work that middle.managemrnt does in bourgeois corporations includes much of the same work that would be needed in a large-scale workers cooperative.
If this was true, the bourgeoisie would have ceased from existing, as “large-scale organizers” would have already toppled oppressive c-suites and private firms. It is precisely the fact bourgeoisie authorized management the powers to impose sanctions, demotions, pay cuts, worsen hours, worsen conditions, and harass, why the bourgeoisie hold any power. They are the supervisors, the internal police, the “soothsayers.”
I hate to say this, but I think youre completely full of your own shit.
Managers aren’t like cops. It’s not some moral quoundry to take a managerial position. Very often, the position is given to someone who’s very competent at their jobs and has the respect of their coworkers.
Of course, there are evil and shit managers too. And there are evil and shit working class non managers. Whatever your personal grudge is should remain just that. Keep your personal enemies.
Our public enemy is the billionaire class. If youre telling me that the guy making 55k a year and managers a team of 8 is on par with the billionaire class, you’ve lost the story completely
Did we read the same meme, or are you this apologetic to the bourgeoisie lapdogs?
Managers are the exact reason bourgeoisie have remained bourgeois for millennia: the bourgeoisie have convinced their brownshirts loyalty for a bigger cut of the pies they larceny. They both need to go, because they are both the oppression.
Their employers? What are they supposed to “start”? Every US state except Montana is completely at-will employment, you can be fired at any time for no reason. You think a floor manager at Amazon has any particular leverage over Jeff Bezos? A middle manager has no greater advantage against the billionaires than anyone else.
Yeah, why haven’t they all quit enmass?
What’s holding them up from starting whatever givesomefucks meant?
Spill it out, why aren’t “middle managers” starting at the “billionaires.”
Then why are “middle managers” vanguarding “billionaires”?
Why are kangaroos flying attack helicopters on Alderaan?
Quick edit:
Even if what you said wasn’t as ridiculous as what I said, so fucking what?
Start with the billionaires and work down.
If you start at the bottom and work up to them, it won’t work.
It just fucking won’t.
Yes, why aren’t “middle managers” “starting with the billionaires and work down”?
You don’t think there are communists and anarchists in middle management? Don’t be daft
precisely why they are class traitors.
I want givesomefucks to see it, say it, and claim them.
Yeah. I mean. That’s just not what a class traitor is. Management serves a function that would exist whether or not there was a bourgeoisie. Workers are capable of choosing when they need a management function (coordination, longer term planning, etc) to exist within their cooperative structures and the people who energize that management function are doing actual work that has value.
Yes, the bourgeoisie convinced many managers to become class traitors for a slice of the pie, but it’s not inherent to the role like it is for cops or imperial soldiers.
You’re confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs. The meme specifies middle management, not coordinators, longer term planners, etc… Not all work requires management, and not certainly bourgeoisie protectors.
Middle management is explicitly not the task masters that supervise workers and police their behavior and explicitly not the c-suite of do-nothing bourgeoisie soothsayers. It’s quite explicitly the group of people that analyze the organization, improve safety and training, handle worker complaints, plan things, evaluate decisions that impact the collective, etc.
Middle management absolutely includes coordinator functions, planning functions, etc.
I’m not confusing a collectively decided role with bourgeoisie lapdogs, I am saying that the work that middle.managemrnt does in bourgeois corporations includes much of the same work that would be needed in a large-scale workers cooperative.
If this was true, the bourgeoisie would have ceased from existing, as “large-scale organizers” would have already toppled oppressive c-suites and private firms. It is precisely the fact bourgeoisie authorized management the powers to impose sanctions, demotions, pay cuts, worsen hours, worsen conditions, and harass, why the bourgeoisie hold any power. They are the supervisors, the internal police, the “soothsayers.”
I hate to say this, but I think youre completely full of your own shit.
Managers aren’t like cops. It’s not some moral quoundry to take a managerial position. Very often, the position is given to someone who’s very competent at their jobs and has the respect of their coworkers.
Of course, there are evil and shit managers too. And there are evil and shit working class non managers. Whatever your personal grudge is should remain just that. Keep your personal enemies.
Our public enemy is the billionaire class. If youre telling me that the guy making 55k a year and managers a team of 8 is on par with the billionaire class, you’ve lost the story completely
Did we read the same meme, or are you this apologetic to the bourgeoisie lapdogs?
Managers are the exact reason bourgeoisie have remained bourgeois for millennia: the bourgeoisie have convinced their brownshirts loyalty for a bigger cut of the pies they larceny. They both need to go, because they are both the oppression.
If you are one for movie theaters, you should go see The Weight. I rather enjoyed it and I think you would too
Pay attention to Avi Nash’s character. You’ll like him.
Their employers? What are they supposed to “start”? Every US state except Montana is completely at-will employment, you can be fired at any time for no reason. You think a floor manager at Amazon has any particular leverage over Jeff Bezos? A middle manager has no greater advantage against the billionaires than anyone else.
Yeah, why haven’t they all quit enmass?
What’s holding them up from starting whatever givesomefucks meant?
Spill it out, why aren’t “middle managers” starting at the “billionaires.”
Same reason as you?
I am a billionaire‽
What stops you, from starting with the billionaires?
Managers.
This. The owning class doesn’t have control without class traitors who act on their behalf in exchange for a paycheck.
I hate the state of political discourse that people are focusing on “billionaires” and not the system that gives those people power.