“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
- Frank Wilhoit
guns
Terrorism has always been an exception to free speech, this isn’t new. Whether this is terrorism or not is debatable.
What did he say that was inciting terrorism?
Saying “fuck Israel” is objectively not terrorism though
Debatable only insomuch as some people want to paint free speech as such
This is the right wing. You can’t expect to have a logical argument with them.
Imagine thinking not abridging free speech means that you can’t go after press/people that are knowingly lying.
Like, no, this is not what free speech means. Scientific fact are no opinions. You can only have the opinion that a scientific fact was not an scientific fact at all, but as soon as it is scientifically proofed that this is not the case, it is no opinion anymore, but just a wrong statement.
Fun fact, the US government can revoke a person’s Naturalization if the government thinks you are a “terrorist” within 5 years of Naturalization:
A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if the person becomes a member of, or affiliated with, the Communist party, other totalitarian party, or terrorist organization within five years of his or her naturalization. In general, a person who is involved with such organizations cannot establish the naturalization requirements of having an attachment to the Constitution and of being well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.
The fact that a person becomes involved with such an organization within five years after the date of naturalization is prima facie evidence that he or she concealed or willfully misrepresented material evidence that would have prevented the person’s naturalization.
Source: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2
As a US Citizen that has Derivative Citizenship, this is honestly terrifying. Its one of the reasons I’m too afraid to protest. I don’t want to end up stateless.
If I was a white US-born Citizen, I might be more willing to protest.
“If you don’t like it you can leave” is such a shit argument that I keep hearing, the whole point of democracy is that if you don’t like it you are allowed to complain and vote to change the situation. Implying someone doesn’t have the right to complain or change an existing system is just how fascism works…
Fun Fact (or maybe a “Not-so-fun” Fact): The US government can revoke a person’s Naturalization if the government thinks you are a “terrorist” within 5 years of Naturalization:
A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if the person becomes a member of, or affiliated with, the Communist party, other totalitarian party, or terrorist organization within five years of his or her naturalization. In general, a person who is involved with such organizations cannot establish the naturalization requirements of having an attachment to the Constitution and of being well-disposed to the good order and happiness of the United States.
The fact that a person becomes involved with such an organization within five years after the date of naturalization is prima facie evidence that he or she concealed or willfully misrepresented material evidence that would have prevented the person’s naturalization.
Source: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-l-chapter-2
That is true and actually had been a thing during George W. Bush’s terms in the 2000s during the height on the War on Terror. If he and his administration thought you were a terrorist (even going as far as to criticize the then-administration), you got your citizenship revoked.
I’ve heard that dumb argument a lot, being touted from GOP voters at every turn. It’s their speed-dial of an argument whenever someone props up any issue that they see wrong, usually because of something tied to GOP, is when they will bring that argument up.
No, I’m not fucking going anywhere just to appease you and your batshit ideals. I’m going to remain here and probably give you hell just because you’re simply annoyed by the fact that there are people who live and think differently than you do and you have to co-exist with that. Or don’t and you take your chances by trying to act it out so we can get all of this pent up bullshit frustration out over political differences. Whichever works.
And I want anyone in their country to stand and fight for change in their country. If you keep running away all of the time, you are letting them win and destroy what you call home and your country that you identify with.
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. It is everyone’s civic duty to guide their country in a positive direction.
Exactly. I tell folks all the time one of the most patriotic things you can do is protest for change.
Well, there is nuance in there. But I’m sure that’s not what this post is about.
Criticising Israel for brutal action against civilians - justified. Calling for the externination of Israel and its population - nazi stuff.
Unfortunately, many of the loudest “anti-zionist” peops seem to be actively for the latter approach, or willingly aid people that strive for it. To that I say: fuck off
It’s not “Nazi stuff” to call for the abolishment of Israel.
It’s a settler-colonial apartheid state actively involved in the complete extermination of the indigenous population. That’s actual Nazi stuff.
Most “Israelis” have another passport. They can go back to their own countries, or give up the state of Israel then live in the new Palestinian territory. No one’s talking about exterminating Israelis, not even while they actively exterminate Palestinians.
As we’ve seen with the way Israeli hostages were treated by Palestinians - fed, taken care of, birthdays celebrated is a stark contrast to how Palestinian prisoners are treated - starved, beaten, raped, tortured, set upon by dogs, buried alive. Decent Israelis would have nothing to fear if the whole land just transitioned to Palestinian territory.
There’s no issue with Judaism as a religion, or Jewish people. But Zionism is not Judaism, it’s just fascism, and the state of Israel is a fascist, genocidal state.
When the West Bank is being invaded and you have Trump talking about exterminating the remaining population of Gaza and building resorts on top of the land can you really keep telling yourself that Zionism and the state of Israel aren’t pure fascism?
Do you have a source on that dual citizenship claim? If you look at how they are treated even in Sweden, can you imagine forcing them to move back to the neighboring states where many of them came from?
Israeli politics are shitty and they are comitting war crimes but but lets be honest, jews are not safe anywhere else than perhaps the US. Having them move or just giving up their own country is no better than forcing the US to give back their country to the native americans. We are living in the now and most israelis are born in israel and are not responsible for what is happening there. The only good solution is to have two states, everything else will result in further conflict.
jews are not safe anywhere else
That’s not even close to true and is literally a line from Zionist propaganda.
At least in the West Jews are far safer than, for example, Muslims - it is the latter who are the “lesser race” of this age in the US and much or Europe, not the former.
If you exclude those reported claims of anti-semitism that turn out to be just criticism of Israel and it’s Genocide (so, of the actions of a nation state and the Zionist regime in charge of it, not of the Jewish people) there is very little anti-semitism going on at least in Europe and way, way, less than anti-Islamism, Racism against people with African ancestry in general or even prejudice against the Roma (Gypsies).
In Europe, even the Far Right is shy of making statements against Jews but they damn well love to make wild claims about Muslims being bad people.
https://bra.se/statistik/statistik-om-rattsvasendet/hatbrottsstatistik
Here is the official statistics of hate crimes in sweden. Antisemitic 4% of total and islamophobic is 8%. However there are around 800000 with a muslim background although only around 230000 are registered with a mosque organized by the major islamic umbrella organization. The same number for jews are 20000 and 6000 active in a congregation. So we have 40 times more muslims, meaning you are 20 times more likely to be a victim of an antisemitic hate crime.
That’s quite the massive goalpost moving from “Jews are not safe anywhere else [but Israel]” to “in 2022 in Sweden there were 108 (4% of hate crimes that year) criminally reported cases of anti-semitism” and that’s in a country were criticism of Israel is deemed anti-semitism, so the real figure of actual anti-semitism (i.e. words and actions against people for being Jews, not merelly the criticizing of Israel) is likely to be vastly lower.
For example were I live, Portugal, politicians went out of the way to pass a law that gives Portuguese nationality to those who can indicate (outright proof is not needed and seldom possible) descendence from people belonging to a Jewish group (the Sefardites) expelled from the country in the 17th century, with the curious result that the most famous “Portuguese” person is the Russian billionaire Abramovich and there are quite a lot of “Portuguese” in Israel who have zero relation with country beyond paying the Synagoge in Porto to pass them a certification that they are Sefardites so as to easilly get an EU passport and hence Freedom to travel, live and work in all of the EU.
It absolutelly is Racism, just in the very opposite direction of what you claim: there are actual living persons in Africa who were victims of Forced Labour (i.e. Slavery) by the Portuguese regime there in the 1960s, plus even more people who are direct, provable descendants of such victims, but apparently what’s far, far more important for a certain rightwing political party in Portugal is to compensate the “descendants” of a group (descendants in quotes because few or none can definitivelly prove direct descendency of victims of those actions) for the actions of Portugal against their ancestors 10 generations ago - by an amazing, trully incredible “coincidence” the distant, possible but almost never definitivelly proven, descendants of people expelled from Portugal 300 years ago deemed deserving of compensation for long past actions of Portugal just happen to White, whilst the actual living victims and direct, provable, descendants of victims of the practice of Slavery of Portugal in Africa a mere 6 decades ago who are not deemed deserving of compensation for it, are Black.
There is definitelly a racist double standard going on, and it’s definitelly not anti-semitism.
And don’t get me started on what happens to somebody demonstrating in Germany or Britain against the Genocide in Gaza when detained by the police for it if they are Jewish compare to what happens if they’re Muslim.
Again, a racist double standard, and it’s definitelly not anti-semitism.
“Whites who happen not to be Christian” are the least discriminated against minorities in Europe at the moment except for a handful of places (I believe that Hungary, for example, is pretty anti-semitic).
No one’s talking about exterminating Israelis, not even while they actively exterminate Palestinians.
Well, I heard exactly that from multiple Lemmy user by now. To be fair, they normally come from certain instances, but it is definitely not no one.
Now they are deporting people legally in the US who didn’t break any laws.
It’s not even about deporting illegal immigrants anymore.
It never was. It’s always been about oppression.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
With Fascists it’s always the same playbook: start with an easily demoniseable minority and over time extend it to the rest.
I wish I could remember the book I read that deconstructed fascism. One of the key components of fascism is an ever concentric cone of who is in the in group vs the out group.
The goal is not fascism but cronyism. That’s why fascist governments never last longer than a few decades.
When wealth and power are concentrated in a small group of people, they become easy targets to a growing angry population. People begin to realize they have nothing left to lose and will begin revolting.
Here in the US, we haven’t quite reached that point yet but I suspect we’ll get there within 20 years.
“We the people. . .” yah sure magat
Well, obviously the “we” means it only applies to us, not to them.
/s for avoidance of doubt.
Exactly
People: definition in america: Anyone who has south or mid english ancestrys and holds land + has an income of high income
They want people to “follow the rules”, but see the “rules” change every day, depending on what mood the rulers are in. It also depends on the color of your skin to them, if its not white, you’re always breaking the “rules” no matter what.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
I’ve learned in hearing conservatives talk about the ammendments, that they can only count to two. So long as they start at two.
They never agree with you when you cite the 8th
Freedom is always the freedom of the obedient.
Purple Belgium
Removed by mod
I hate it, when people link states with religion and think all citizens have the same opinion like their fascist government.
Like I don’t link US with christianity and say fuck all Christian people because Trump is doing shit.Perhaps I poorly worded my comment. What I meant was that I’ve always automatically taken the side of Jews whenever some event or situation came about that I involved them. I always assumed antisemitism played a part, but seeing the gleeful cheer and violent rhetoric from so many Israeli Jews has soured me on the benefit. I won’t make a knee jerk judgement call anymore.
Well, I recommend to not put all jews in the same drawer and hate all manipulative religion shit the same.
I am an atheist, so that goes without saying 😂
What?
Not all Jewish people are supporting Israel’s Genocide.
And not all men are predators, and not all drug users are addicts.
What’s your point?
