Well for me it’s been like I deeply hated myself for many, many years with no desire to forgive myself for any of my mistakes. My inner dialogue was complete self hate. So yeah, I get it. You’re not there yet. Nowadays I still am unkind to myself internally, but sometimes I try to listen to the other side of me that made whatever mistake I’m ruminating on. The part that had some kind of need or pain. Just hearing them out a bit. Not justifying or embracing the mistake, just hearing out the circumstance. And it helps me a bit. Still have some days where I forgive myself nothing, but those are usually bad days.

Sometimes i think it’s just me lashing out on myself cause it’s what I was taught you’re supposed to do when you feel bad. It’s what I saw in my father do and what he did to me. Maybe I’m just a piece of shit too, you know? Who knows? What I do know is I become a better person to others when I just listen to myself a bit more. That’s me, anyway.

Friday was weird. I had a work obligation with this friend I’m starting a project with. He’s a person who’s deeply connected with his feelings and others in a weird way. Like, he’s a really good person and takes others into consideration more than anyone I know. He’s suffered great personal loss, which I won’t get into, and deep emotional pain and I think that somehow forced him to focus on what he considered valuable and worthwhile.

Anyway, that morning I told him I was feeling crappy and that we should meet up later in the afternoon to talk personal stuff (to force myself to get out of my apt and my own head, which i don’t always do). When it was time to go out, I felt so miserable about not doing basically anything all week, called him and told him I hadn’t done any progress regarding our project and just wanted to focus on finishing the stuff if that was ok. He said he wanted to meet. I said I’d prefer not to and then asked if he wanted to, and he said that he did.

So I wasn’t willing to go for my own benefit but did because I felt an obligation towards him and didn’t want to be a crappy friend. So I showed up, despite my shame.

We talked. He knows I struggle so he was gentle, but asked what was up. We went through what I was dealing with and he reassured me that whatever I was going through, getting out starts with knowing that there is a way out of my own head and visualizing the feeling of being out. Just knowing what it would feel like would help, he said. He also reminded me a few life lessons I like to forget. It felt really good. Someone caring, you know? Really helped.

I started picking up after myself the next few days. Slowly, but better each day, and feeling a bit better each day.

So TL;DR: I reached out, then backed off, then he insisted I showed up, so I did and it helped a lot.

And yeah, I guess we’ll see about you forgiving yourself. We’ll see how you get there and what it takes, and I truly believe we’ll see the wonderful person that emerges from that process. We will see. We’ll all see. :)

Thanks for asking, btw. <3

Well that sounds like a lot to handle, tetris11, even with the caffeine and distractions… and those spiralling thoughts at night don’t sound like a picnic either.

I don’t know if you’re a nice person or not, or the quality of the decisions you’ve made. Even if I knew everything you’ve ever done, though, I wouldn’t be qualified to decide that imo. I wouldn’t know what the experience of being you was. I wouldn’t know how you had it. How well or bad you feel. How being in your shoes is.

I’m glad you’re seeking help and I hope it gets you through this… and this is just a thought by someone who knows nothing about you, but maybe you could also, in parallel, try to be a bit compassionate with yourself. Maybe you messed up and maybe you caused damage, but also maybe… just maybe… you were also suffering, didn’t know what to do, were scared, or in pain or mad or whatever. I don’t know… Maybe your needs and circumstances aren’t meaningless in the context of your decisions, you know? Maybe your inner world also matters. I also often experience extreme guilt and you know what it doesn’t do? Help me. At least until I take a determination on how to act in the future… In my case It’s 90% self flagellation. And whatever it is for you, I hope it becomes less painful.

I really hope you feel better and I’m super happy you’re taking the initiative to fight those inner demons. Stay strong and keep fighting to improve! <3

Well… I’m not a doctor or have any kind of relevant education or training in order to qualify me to actually treat people in any way. Just starting off with that.

I’m just a friendly ear with a poorly photoshopped pudu in doctor’s clothes behind a cheap lemonade stand that’s willing to listen and will try to connect with what you’re going through in hopes of making some stranger’s life just a tiny bit better. That’s me.

I don’t know you and you don’t know me, but if you wanna talk, I’m listening. And I have no way of telling, let alone diagnosing, if you’re insane or not, but hey, if you are, you’re not the only one in this thread. lol.

Whether you are unwell or you aren’t, would love to hear more about it. So what do you say? Feel like sharing? pours lemonade and take out notebook

Woah! Sounds like things are lining up, at least in the sense of these aspects of your life! Very happy for you about the good news and an upgrade sounds good. Congrats on refurbishing the room, too. Those things take a lot of work and when they’re complete it feels really satisfying.

Glad you’re slightly better than usual, neidu3. Even if it’s not much, it makes me happy someone out there is better than they used to. Thanks for telling us about your world. Hope it keeps picking up!

A counselor being dismissive can’t feel good. Really sorry about that. And yeah, the US seems to be pretty chaotic right now. It feels to me like the entirety of western civilization is in crisis sometimes, and I get overwhelmed and stressed. It really does feel very dangerous and I wish it didn’t affect you and so many other people as much as it has.

Not saying I have any solutions but sometimes, when my entire life and everything is going straight to hell, i can make myself feel a little bit better by closing my eyes and remembering the good things I still do have, and just appreciating them for a second amidst the chaos. Like the support of people who care, the little health I have left, the roof over my head and my computer. haha. In my case it ain’t much, but it could be a lot worse. For me, anyway.

Just those little moments of trying to find some precarious version of inner peace make it a bit more manageable to me. Not that they’ll fix anything regarding circumstance, but they let me catch a breath and sometimes that’s what I need.

Thanks for taking the time to open up and I really wish the world becomes a friendlier place for you and all of us. Take care and with any luck, those counselors will start doing their jobs better to actually help people having a crisis.

Stay strong, ocean.

Hi, Cid.

First of all, really sorry to hear that. It really does seem like the world is getting messy and having that mix up with personal stuff can’t be fun. Sometimes to me it’s like when it rains, it pours… Like why can’t it be one thing at once in manageable intervals? When stuff goes down for me, it feels like everything falls apart at once.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with all that. The gloom can be brutal. It ain’t pretty, but I think you have the right attitude. You know… appreciating a good day and feeling good about being a bit better kinda makes the weight more bearable. And chicken pot pies sound pretty damn good. Not gonna lie. haha.

Really appreciate you sharing and I hope things pick up for you and all of us. Have a great lunch! :)

You don’t have to prove anything to anyone, but you have a choice to mock / belittle other people and their issues or not to. You may get repercussions for joking about sensitive topics like these people did, but that’s not really the point.

There are no prizes for choosing not to use dark humor beyond personally knowing you may have spared someone a little bit of suffering. If that matters to you, take it into consideration. If it doesn’t, that’s fine too… I just advise you to remember your choice, why you took it and observe how it makes you feel and what it makes you become.

And there are all kinds of shades of gray here, too. You can joke around once in a while if you want to, but extreme attitudes tend to cause extreme consequences.

And just to be clear, I’m not claiming to be an example of anything. I used to be the dudes Derek hung out with. Hell, i still am if you catch me on a bad day. Just sharing what I feel those decisions taught me.

Whatever you choose, hope it’s for the best.

That sucks. Sorry.

Haven’t watched anything in a while, sadly. Any recommendations?

Are you ‘Derek’?

I understand your point, but please allow me to convey mine.

Can you construct an experiment that would, if successful, prove or disprove logic, without relying on logic as a means to determine the proof or disproof?

If it can’t be done, then it would seem like everything that has ever been proven relies on this assumption of the value of logic as a means to gain knowledge about the universe, which you know, is fine… but it hasn’t been proven or disproven, which imo would make it fall under the same categories you mention, as it would seem like what is a part of reality and what isn’t couldn’t be determined without using a fundamental axiom that is taken for granted.

Just like what you are describing in your third paragraph, which are all judgements of value which assume behaviors, beliefs and world views as a means to achieve a better society or life or rely on other unproveable assumptions of value that are impossible to prove, logic also seems to me like an assumption that is impossible to prove.

Not trying to convince you, though. I just wanted to explain my perspective.

I do prefer, and thank you, but ermm… does science not rely on philosophy? Is logic not philosophy?

Me too. Hard to hate on a people whose country has one of the most humane societies in the world.

While what hue the people in your family tree are or where they banged shouldn’t affect how you define yourself and definitely doesn’t define who you are, it may convey information regarding cultural heritage.

Race may not be a valid means to form any kind of opinion about anyone regarding value judgements, but it also doesn’t convey 0 information about their context either.

For example if someone says they have 100% inuit ascendance does that mean nothing vs them saying their heritage is 100% british? Certain ways to see the world become more or less likely imo. Not because of their actual Race but because of the culture that tends to come with it. Just my opinion.

“P”

He isn’t but I am.

Hey everyone, we found the culprit! Everything is RagingSnarkasm’s fault!

What you are describing is buddhism with extra steps.

Ask for your money back.

Girls can be great hole diggers, yes.

Not that I’m aware of.