Yeah. But the difference in China is the people that get disappeared are billionaires that started criticisming the government too much. Id rather we disappear some billionaires here. Instead of brown people protesting a genocide.
You have a highly idealistic perspective on China. This isn’t to say that things are lerfect in Europe or North America - they most definitely aren’t. But it is to say that two things can be true at the same time, i.e., there are growing issues in the West and China has a highly oppressive regime.
There is a natural temptation to whitewash and exxagerate the good in other times and places, especially ones that are directly juxtaposed to the one you are inhabiting and are critical toward.
However, we must resist these temptations lest we doom ourselves to repeat the same mistake over and over.
It’s just if you say a single thing positive about China that you get 20 replies about tank man or reeducation camps. No one cares to have a conversation about the thing you said about China they just spew state department talking points.
It’s like if I said something about the US being pretty good with gay rights (for now at least) and then people started saying: Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange, MOVE bombing, George Floyd, GITMO, etc.
But you are the only reasonable reply here. I don’t disagree with much of what you said. I just think the backlash to saying anything positive about China while the US is literally going full 1939 is just completely disconnected. More so than any China idealizing would ever be.
If you were saying anything good about China I might agree with you, but you are not saying anything good about China. What you are complaining about in the US is a lot worse in China.
I love China, say anything that’s positive about China and I’ll agree with you.
China will not black bag people for supporting Palestine. Palestinian Liberation is as the forefront of the fight against fascism that is unfolding. Their future is our future. China is not suppressing the speech of people that speak out against this genocide. That’s why I would say China is “better” right now. Because they are better on the most important issue today. Whether that is by chance or has alternative incentives that does not matter. The US is absolutely worse than China on the free speech that matters right now.
You’re just plain wrong about that. The Chinese government hates any kind of social unrest and do not tolerate anything close to the protests happening in the US. The pro-palestine movement in China is suppressed harder in China than in the US.
There are good things about china , there are bad things about china … people focus on one or the other to suit(idk how to spell) their ideological needs.
PRC did improve the life of average ham chinese by leaps and bounds starting from 1990s onwards , but it does supress minorities , arrest for going against the party line , supress unions and strikes , but also invests in green energy , does massive projects to better the life of the average citisen , has rly invested into a lot of public things like rail , city pollution etc.
So can we agree that everything is a shade of gray and if someone wants to move to china out of their volition let them , but that person also needs to be aware how life there really is.
She didn’t disappear mate. She’s made several public appearances since. Literally read the article. She just disappeared from social media. There is no evidence she was “taken”.
Was she censored heavily upon making accusations? Absolutely. But censored is not “being disappeared”. Do you think this is the same as taking people to a prison in another country with zero due process?
She made a few public appearances, that means she’s on indefinite house arrest or something similar. Could be worse of course, this is indeed not the best example.
Never heard of the Xinjiang concentration camps? In China it’s also mostly brown people who criticize the government who are disappeared, the billionaires are the exceptions that make the news.
The USA might be getting worse, but it’s still a far cry from China.
unironically, the best PR for China recently was Rednote when TikTok was gonna be banned. Literally just Americans and Chinese people on the same social media platform was pretty fun. Lots of light hearted shit from both countries people for a week.
In the US making people disappear without due process is news, in China it’s a daily occurrence.
Yeah. But the difference in China is the people that get disappeared are billionaires that started criticisming the government too much. Id rather we disappear some billionaires here. Instead of brown people protesting a genocide.
You have a highly idealistic perspective on China. This isn’t to say that things are lerfect in Europe or North America - they most definitely aren’t. But it is to say that two things can be true at the same time, i.e., there are growing issues in the West and China has a highly oppressive regime.
There is a natural temptation to whitewash and exxagerate the good in other times and places, especially ones that are directly juxtaposed to the one you are inhabiting and are critical toward.
However, we must resist these temptations lest we doom ourselves to repeat the same mistake over and over.
It’s just if you say a single thing positive about China that you get 20 replies about tank man or reeducation camps. No one cares to have a conversation about the thing you said about China they just spew state department talking points.
It’s like if I said something about the US being pretty good with gay rights (for now at least) and then people started saying: Chelsea Manning, Julian Assange, MOVE bombing, George Floyd, GITMO, etc.
But you are the only reasonable reply here. I don’t disagree with much of what you said. I just think the backlash to saying anything positive about China while the US is literally going full 1939 is just completely disconnected. More so than any China idealizing would ever be.
If you were saying anything good about China I might agree with you, but you are not saying anything good about China. What you are complaining about in the US is a lot worse in China.
I love China, say anything that’s positive about China and I’ll agree with you.
China will not black bag people for supporting Palestine. Palestinian Liberation is as the forefront of the fight against fascism that is unfolding. Their future is our future. China is not suppressing the speech of people that speak out against this genocide. That’s why I would say China is “better” right now. Because they are better on the most important issue today. Whether that is by chance or has alternative incentives that does not matter. The US is absolutely worse than China on the free speech that matters right now.
You’re just plain wrong about that. The Chinese government hates any kind of social unrest and do not tolerate anything close to the protests happening in the US. The pro-palestine movement in China is suppressed harder in China than in the US.
Notice how that’s not the same as black bagging someone? I swear I’m taking crazy pills. Are you paying attention in the US?
There are good things about china , there are bad things about china … people focus on one or the other to suit(idk how to spell) their ideological needs.
PRC did improve the life of average ham chinese by leaps and bounds starting from 1990s onwards , but it does supress minorities , arrest for going against the party line , supress unions and strikes , but also invests in green energy , does massive projects to better the life of the average citisen , has rly invested into a lot of public things like rail , city pollution etc.
So can we agree that everything is a shade of gray and if someone wants to move to china out of their volition let them , but that person also needs to be aware how life there really is.
Thanks for coming to my T(ito)Ed(ucational) Talk
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Peng_Shuai
She stopped existing in 30 min.
She didn’t disappear mate. She’s made several public appearances since. Literally read the article. She just disappeared from social media. There is no evidence she was “taken”.
Was she censored heavily upon making accusations? Absolutely. But censored is not “being disappeared”. Do you think this is the same as taking people to a prison in another country with zero due process?
She made a few public appearances, that means she’s on indefinite house arrest or something similar. Could be worse of course, this is indeed not the best example.
Some better examples:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_of_Michael_Spavor_and_Michael_Kovrig
Never heard of the Xinjiang concentration camps? In China it’s also mostly brown people who criticize the government who are disappeared, the billionaires are the exceptions that make the news.
The USA might be getting worse, but it’s still a far cry from China.
china loves westerners, its good pr and propaganda for them.
unironically, the best PR for China recently was Rednote when TikTok was gonna be banned. Literally just Americans and Chinese people on the same social media platform was pretty fun. Lots of light hearted shit from both countries people for a week.