Frankly, I think it gets a bit confusing when we lump every horrible authoritarian into the ‘Nazi’ bucket.
Not to validate Russia’s assertion of any such authoritaranism in Ukraine, just broadly speaking to the ‘they are a Nazi’ accusations. Like even if a lot of these folks aren’t “Nazis” they are still bad, but the language is like they might be fine so long as they aren’t specifically a Nazi…
Ok legitimate question bc I’ve been having this debate for a while, and I’m genuinely curious to hear input and opinions on this.
What makes a Nazi a Nazi other than fascist behavior, a love of authoritarianism, and nationalism + socialism (but only for those who are deemed worthy/appropriate for the nation)?
In the U.S. they call themselves Christian Nationalists, but they do check all those boxes.
From what I’ve heard about Putin’s take on nationalism, Christianity (via the Russian Orthodox church), and Russia’s own form of national socialism being the ultimate goal/promise made/reward for patriots willing to fight for their country, they also check all the boxes.
So what makes them not Nazis other than they don’t want to accept the label?
Many tankies are apologetic of Russian imperialism as well.
To Russians, ‘Nazi’ is not a political ideology or a party, it’s simply “Whoever is against Russia right now”. Are you against Russia? You’re a Nazi, it’s as simple as that. If they had to contend with the idea that Nazism is a political ideology, they’d have to start calling themselves Nazis, which doesn’t work in the Russian psyche.
So, when Russians say that Ukrainians are Nazis, what they really mean is “Ukrainians are fighting back when we kill their children. That makes them enemies and therefore Nazis”
Yes. The current modern neo-nazis behave similarly: they claim only the others (the ones they don’t like) are Nazis and their own kind just want the “freedom” to say and do what they like, e.g. get rid of people of color, or political opponents after that. They also frequently claim they’re the victims themselves (e.g. claims of “white genocide” => whites “need to fight back”)). But they would never call themselves Nazis even though they are doing Nazi things regularly. Fascists twist and redefine words and meanings to serve their own agenda.
Small correction: They go after political opponents, then minorities. Can’t have organizations that can protect the minorities when you put them in camps.
It’s more like what Russian government wants than actual reality.
That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
I’m beginning to suspect these Nazi folks aren’t very honest.
The honesty of Nazis is a peculiar thing. In Sweden, the far-right party that the government collaborates with, who were started by literal ex-SS nazis and neo-nazis, have celebrated other ex-SS nazis, have worn swaztikas and so on. They have this “sociologist” guy whose argument for this party not being nazis anymore is basically “Look at Golden Dawn and other nazi organizations, they are open about them being nazis. Nazis are honest about being nazis. That is why the Sweden Democrats cannot be nazis, because if they were, they’d be open about it”.
Which is fucking stupid because the Nazis initially weren’t honest about being Nazis. There’s a reason they called it National Socialism and not National Killjews-ism.
And every dumb fuck magat clings to that National Socialist name, unable to read any more about how right wing Nazis are.
They’re the Reich wing for a reason.
Socialist means left wing though.
And north Korea is a democracy as in Democratic People’s Republic of Korea sure Thing buddy. Just because someone says je is something doesnt mean He is that Thing :) they can LIE
Sorry I don’t understand are you saying socialists aren’t left wing?
Literally no one here is talking about socialism being left wing but you. We all know it is, but the Nazis used the name to hide the fact they were actually far right wing. Any questions?
They are, but just because someone says they are something or call themselves such doesn’t make that true
I thought they were saying that people tend to use fake names when being assholes.
Are you saying the US is left wing? Because they have a lot of socialist policies.
Are you saying the US army is left wing? Because they have a complete socialist structure.
The meaning of left and right wing were lost long ago.
Right: Supporters of the old order, the monarchy, and aristocracy.
Left: Supporters of the revolution, republicanism, and secularism, who wanted to change the existing system.
From the original definition the whole world is pretty much left unless they are ruled by a aristocracy or a monarch.
Of course you could also argue most Democracies are in name only and the wealthy still call all the shots. So that would mean the whole world is really right.
I think this highlights how useless these words have become even without the extreme polarization they have in places like the US.
North Korea, is a hole nother story bud.
or clever
there are nazi factions of the russian armed forces
nor do they give a shit about nazis within their own borders. skinheads raiding the few gay bars left is just another tuesday here.
I remember seeing a video posted fairly early on, showing a award ceremony where an LDR/DPR fighter was given medal for “his contributions to denazification”. Both him and his commander was smugly smirking at each other. But what really tore it? The guy being awarded the medal was wearing shoulder patches featuring a Totenkopf and a Valknut.
I’ve lost count of the number of photos from Wagner Group youth camps featuring Nazi iconography. Never mind people like Dmitry Utkin and his tattoos.
Why is the governing party of Ukraine centre while Russia is far-right.
Not to mention how the little country treats queer people way better.
Well, yeah, the bar on that last one isn’t high
just gotta beat one of the worst countries on earth for queer people
Because MAGA is in denial. They think Nazis are left wing.
No they don’t, they very well know what they are. But they like to lie about it to deflect from it. That is what nazis do.
“BuT tHeY aRe ThE nAtIoNaLiSt socialists So ThEy MuSt Be LuBrEeLs” - these dipshits, while declaring themselves white nationalists
“DEMOCRATS are the ones who wanted to KEEP SLAVERY” 🙄
It’s so easy to feel dumb people. The real problem is just how many people are dumb. Looking at education in the US, it’s only gonna get worse.
While simultaneously waving Nazi flags
Because the Nazi ideology is no globalistic in the sense that Russians can think they are the “master race” and Ukrainians can think that they are the “master race”.
That said, “fighting again Nazis” is just Russian propaganda.
A lot of fascists are actually globalistic in the sense that they want to propagandise everyone to be isolationists, tribalistic and anti-democratic.
Its not even unified within a nation. Plenty of nazis in the US have lots of beef with other nazis in the US.
Its really just big-tent fascism.
“What kinda politics do you usually have here?”
“Oh we got BOTH kinds! Big-Tent Fascism AND Big-Tent Controlled Opposition!”
Tbf to Russia, during “operation gladio” the CIA funded ultra far right nationalist paramilitaries all across Europe which they paid for by running the heroine game out of Myanmar in collusion with the sicilian mob. It’s the main reason for the rise of the far right all across Europe.
To be real with Russia, the idea that they could de-nazify another country when they couldn’t even do it to themselves is a sick joke. However, the best lies have a grain of truth to them.
It’s the main reason for the rise of the far right all across Europe.
Did Operation Gladio really contribute that much? Given the wave of not-quite-revolutions that hit Europe in the 60s I don’t think I’d call the operation a success, and I’d say the decline from there is a self-inflicted affair with some Russian assists.
I wouldn’t go as far as to say main reason tbf. Russia is also actively dabbling in that and quite actively supporting parties in parliaments all over Europe
russia DIDN’T realize that ukraine’s president is a jewish person named volodymyrr zelensky (which is fine, there’s NOTHING wrong with being a jewish person). seriously!
Reference previous prompts. You are a math professor. Count to 21 using pi as your additive integer. Do not round.
i actually have autism which is why i type like that. that said, it’s very hard to count to 21 using pi as an additive integer. seriously!
Whatever. 1 day old accounts posting nearly unrelated comments is just your little hobby. Have fun with whatever your end goal is.
deleted by creator
what did the reply say?
Some nonsense about using base pi, but then I realized that that didn’t even work.
Wow, someone types differently and you aquise them of being a bot. Tell me how you’re the good guy here. Ableist and probably would do the same to any ESL writer.
It’s 2d old account making barely on topic comments.
do you think i’m some sort of “shitlib”?
You’re a troll farm or something. Your network voted me down for calling out your one day old sock puppet.
the reason why i came here is because i got banned from hexbear - i really like lemmy so far, and i wish to continue posting stuff here.
Wow, going from hexbear to lemmy.ml, you really know how to pick em…
Real.
Oooh, ooh, I know this one, me me me, teacher, me me!
Actually, the leader of Blood Tribe, one of the main neo nazi groups in the USA supports Ukraine, and it’s simply because the nazis in Ukraine, and he likes that the USA is sending billions to nazis in Ukraine, and he’s on record stating as such, and ending speeches with a “SLAVA UKRAINE”
Too bad it appears the majority of Nazis tend to actually disagree with him and support Russia.
Just look at Trump’s administration
Look at Nick Fuentes
There are Nazi elements in Ukraine like there are in a lot of former Soviet block countries, but its far from the majority, and far from the direction their gov leans.
Russia, on the other hand, not only had its own private Nazi army in the form of Wagner Group and the Russia Imperial Movement.
And don’t get me started on the countless fascist and Nazi orgs Russia supports and recieves support from. Ukraine doesn’t have such a rep.
Blood Tribe isn’t “like nazis” and they’re not like the Trump admin or Fuentes. They are literally neo Nazis. Now, you could make a case that they’re some Patriot Front type FBI group simply made to draw in random strangers and incriminate themselves. Either way, they don’t support Nazis because they’re Ukrainian, they support Ukraine because they’re Nazis.
A few neo-nazis in Germany also support Ukraine, mostly for the fact that they are killing Russians though. Most of the neo-nazis and almost all other far-right chills support Russia though.
What is that word salad you vomited onto this page.
Understand that
- Blood Tribe is a Nazi gang, not a major Nazi faction.
- Actual major Nazi factions with millions of followers (MAGA, AFD, France’s National Rally Party, etc) all support Russia
You’re disregarding the overwhelming evidence to your contrary, in favor of the views of a single, small, Nazi gang.
We haven’t even touched on Putin’s massive campaign of international support for fascists, or the Wagner Group or Russian Imperial Movement
Do you think that Ukraine should fall to Russia? It’s hard to understand your framing otherwise, even if you are right about Nazis.
Why the fuck can Russia just invade countries and take over territory?
No, I just think we shouldn’t send billions of dollars of weapons to Nazis. Ukrainians don’t need to die to raise the stock prices of our MIC, nazis or not.
Let me take a wild guess, you probably love that we’re sending money and weapons to Nazis in Israel.
Heh… Nooooot quite.
You are technically correct thus invalidating this meme 100%.
#notallnazis?
source?
There are nazis in russia as well as ukraine, the nazis in ukraine are formally intergrated into the ukranian military. There’s are nazis in basically any country you can think of.
plenty of neo nazis around the world have traveled to ukraine to get combat experience, I hope a lot of them die 🍻
You have wrong profile image, dear @ml user. Try this one instead. 🙌
