If the average person can not use your OS, it is not ready. Period.
For example:
Windows - Open File Explorer > Add Network Drive > Find/plug it in > Enter creds > Bam. Ready to go and will automatically log you in at boot. Very nice, very intuitive UI.
Linux - Open Dolphin (or whatever) > Network > Add Network Folder/Find it > Enter creds > Does not automatically mount the drive when booting the computer back up > Must go into fstab to get it to automount > Stop, because that is ridiculous
In my own experience, I was able to get the hang of Windows with no one showing me how a computer ever worked, at the age of 10! Intuitive enough a child can do it.
On Linux, you have to read manuals/documentation, ask random (mostly rude) people on the internet, or give up because why the fuck would I want to go and enter 5 commands just to have something as simple as auto mount a network share? Not intuitive, therefore not easy to learn as you go.
I get it, Linux people like knowing how their computers operate, they like ensuring everything is working the way THEY want to, and that’s awesome! What’s not awesome is recommending Linux to the general populace and then getting upset at them for asking why they can’t do something or why don’t they just do these steps to do whatever it is they are having issues with. Then, you have a person who doesn’t even know what a terminal is confused as hell because they were told Linux is so much better than Windows.
Until we get a more intuitive (GUI focused) way of doing what I would consider normal computer tasks, it will not ever be ready. That’s just the way I see it.
the average person doesnt know how to mount a drive on windows or even what that is or why you would want to, they just need to be able to open a browser
Very good point!
Example 2:
I need to drag this file into my browser to upload it to the website I’m visiting for whatever reason. I’m an average user that has only ever really needed a browser. My OS came with Firefox, but when I try to drag the file onto my browser window like I’ve always done, nothing happens. Is my computer broken?
No, it’s installed as a snap/flatpak that doesn’t have the “privileges” to do that, and I will never know that since I’m an average user who only needs a browser.
clicking the browse button to select the file is a hell of a lot easier than opening the file manager, navigating your way through your files to find the one specific one, then make both windows small so you can select a file in one, and drag it over to the other.
And look, its also an example of how you turn nothing into a big, complicated, multistep imaginary issue.
you don’t need to make the windows, just alttab while dragging. and maybe you already have open the directory in another window so why browse there again in the browser’s file picker.
probably not a big deal, but definitely not a small issue either
Your second example is a newish problem and Ubuntu specific. I had never had a problem with drag-and-drop and I migrated from Ubuntu before the snap thing.
You will always find an example of something that works “better” in one OS than other. Linux is not trying to be a windows drop-in replacement, some thing are gonna behave differently. Linux have some problems for an average user but a lot is just different UX design and others, especially hardware compatibility is because companies don’t care for it to work on Linux so the OS is always playing catch up.
A lot of “beginner friendly” distros are Ubuntu based though, so while not strictly requiring you to use snaps, it might install Firefox as a flatpak though, which doesn’t have the privileges to do drag and drop when I last used a flatpak based browser.
You can correct me if I am wrong of course, as I truly don’t know if it is still a thing or if I just installed the flatpak. I didn’t understand the limitations back then.
Flatseal helps with managing flatpak perms, but yeah it’s not at all intuitive
Right, but we are talking about the average user. One who only needs a browser. They wouldn’t even think about flatpak/snap/appimage, and would probably look at you like you are insane if you said those in the same sentence as “Your browser is a flatpak/snap/appimage, so it doesn’t have the permissions it needs to allow drag and drop”.
When I was on help desk I often talked about meeting the client where they were at in their technical skill level. Sometimes their technical skill level was “Can you click the icon in the bottom left that looks like a window with four pains, and then click the settings icon it looks like a gear”. If mounting a file share was involved I just remoted in, none of the people that called could handle those instructions.
If the average user
Proceeds to describe a task average users never perform.
And no, you having been a smart child doesn’t excuse you being an obtuse adult.
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No automount check box on openSUSE, my Linux OS.
Also, we’re talking average users here, not some techy people who at least understand the differences between the OS and the file manager they use.
Also, we’re talking average users here
Ah yes, the average user who deals with mounting hard disk partitions all the time…
What DE do you use? KDE Partition Manager has a setting for it.
I use KDE!
I’ve looked into this before , so in all seriousness, what options would I choose to make it auto mount without asking for a password?
I see the box for no automatic mount, but I don’t see one that is for auto mounting? I’m assuming the don’t prevent boot… option is pretty self explanatory.
Yeah these were the default settings but it’s what I would leave it at. I chose /mnt/data just for an example but that’s not a bad spot for it either.
After clicking OK it asked if I wanted to let it modify fstab to allow auto mounting. So this should just accomplish what you’re looking for I believe.
So, I looked into KDE PM, and I guess it would have been more helpful to explain that these drives were made on Windows, and has data that I can not afford to move into a new drive at this moment. So in the mean time I am trying to work between Windows and Linux when one doesn’t do what I’m needing in the moment.
When I double click the ntfs partition in the window, it brings up a partition properties window. At the bottom of this window, I can see the flags section. One is “bios-grub” and the other is “boot”. If I tick the boot option, will that make it auto mount?
if you want to access NTFS partitions on linux, you should turn off “fast startup” in windows. control panel, energy saving, “choose what the power button does” menu. (so intuitive, eh?)
when that’s ticked in, it will always just hibernate the system after logging out, and that’s a nono, and a big one if dualbooting (even just 2 windowses)
Unless computer companies include Linux with their PC’s, it will never get general adoption.
No average user will follow instructions on how to boot Linux distro installer, especially when there are multiple steps needed to do so, such as on UEFI systems.
This isn’t really how this format works but ok
Hah. I just saw this on the back of some other guy berating me for complaining that Steam exploded when trying to get it to acknowledge Steam libraries on NTFS drives. I’ll stop complaining the moment my stuff works.
But hey, I hear my HDR monitors are supposed to have stopped artifacting out on the latest Nvidia drivers I installed last week, so if I ever get Steam to work again maybe I can give that another try and see if I can scratch that one from my routine.
Meh, never mind me. I’m just cranky from all the troubleshooting. I really thought I had this down semi-permanently a couple weeks ago.
It certainly sounds like wayland is just about ripe. Any DE recommendations for a lifelong XFCE enjoyer like myself?
KDE. It’s working very well with Wayland. I’ve been using both on my daily driver for a year now and it’s come a long way since then. It was still a bit rough in the beginning but now I can’t see myself going back. It’s pretty polished.
I’m not a Linux noob, but I’ve been out of the scene for a few years.
Recently tried debian with KDE and Wayland on a modern PC with a 3060. Just a default install.
My mouse could barely track across the screen, it was very choppy and stuttered like crazy.
This was in the last 6 months. I got it fixed by switching to a different compositor, but I shouldn’t have had to do that. Even then I found YouTube to be super laggy.
It’s just not ready.
well it’s again more about nvidia driver for wayland u need manually do some tweaks such as https://github.com/CachyOS/CachyOS-Settings/blob/master/usr/lib/modprobe.d/nvidia.conf
I’m glad there are ways to get it working, and thank you for sharing it, but this doesn’t qualify as “it just works, why are you idiots not switching from Windows when Linux just works”.
This is directly why a lot of people don’t take the arguments that Linux is ready for the average user seriously.
opensuse leap has those settings by default. and people say it’s not beginner friendly…
KDE or Gnome.
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Proton the gaming tool
Fractional Scaling (Done)
Can you please tell my computer that? 😄
NvidiaGPU working
what world do you live in? I have even newer driver than that and it’s still buggy!
HDR isn’t all that great for gaming yet, in my opinion. It takes too much tweaking just to get it working, because apparently games/proton still aren’t able to natively pass that metadata to Wayland?
Running every applicable game or all of Steam through Gamescope brings its own problems with how it handles the window, so I end up never using it at all. I just want it to be as simple as it is on Windows, man! 😩
Also, VRR seems to make my screen flicker at an unnoticeably-high-but-still-irritating rate at random whenever I alt+tab, never figured that out yet…
Finally, I do wish there was a simpler, more paint.net-like editor rather than GIMP, and I’m sure it’s out there somewhere, but otherwise basically every thing on that list of features works well enough for me.
“Nvidia GPU working”
If the driver feels like it, lol.
everyone in the comments is talking about linux, not a single comment about how this meme format is used exactly wrong
I’d love to move to Linux but I play some old ass games that I’ve no idea if they’ll work. I missed out a lot of games since my PC was pure ass and it’s just something I like doing.
For eg I want to play OG Deus Ex (never done before), and do a replay of Morrowind with fancy mods. I also recently replayed Splinter Cell because I felt like it.
Should really check out open mw.
old games typically work better on linux than on modern windows versions
Discord screensharing is working on Wayland now? :O
Yes?
No. It’s only in the experimental build as it’s still unstable for many people. They briefly introduced it, then got lots of complains and pulled it again.
I agree with Linus Torvalds. Linux is too fragmented. This makes consistent software deployment and support expensive and far too varied. Maintaining documentation alone requires an unlimited number of distros. From a user’s perspective, I really think Linux needs a universal install method like .exe. No user should ever need to use the CLI install software, no matter their distribution. Radarr, for example, is a very popular home media server application. It is one-click install on Windows. It is fucked on Linux.
Oh hells no
.exe to execute is (probably one of) the worst ideas Microsoft has come up with and has caused endless misery for people.
If you’re talking about a single package to install then there are various solutions for that that are better. There are the apt and rpm packages, Sudo apt install packagename installs everything automatically, or I can do that from a app store if I’m a newbie.
For apps that want a wider net, they can use flatpaks
Anyone complaining that installing software in Linux is always complicated hasn’t installed software on Linux. Yeah I’m a power user but to me it’s factors faster and easier to do this stuff on Linux than on Windows
Yeah, Linux has many ways to get stuff done, that is because many different people want and get their own way. I don’t see this as necessarily bad. With the three ways described above, you can cover pretty much everything
I agree that noone should have to get into a console to get your system or app working but please note that this same shit happens on windows too, just way more bizarre. The amount of times I saw “modify this registry entry with this UUID code” is crazy, while on Linux it’s “run this command or modify that text file”. I still prefer the latter
100%
I don’t understand this “Installing stuff on Linux is complicated :(” meme when the user-friendly distros have “app stores” and the terminal commands for app management are simpler than 80’s text adventure inputs. (Apt / zypper / yum / whatever + search, then install and “Y”. You can even install multiple packages by separating them with spaces! Doesn’t require an MIT degree here…)
And the sheer convenience of one single update process to update all your software on your machine at once! This is literally what mindless-consumption devices like smartphones do, and people seem to like it.
Windows fans need Chocolatey to “mimic a fraction of our power!!”(Lol j/k. meme.) And while it’s cool, I found it more complicated command-wise. (There’s also GUI front ends I think to be fair but I digress.)
On Windows if your app doesn’t auto-update, you’ve gotta download a new .exe, or .msi or .zip (“so many formats! Not simple! :(” heh) for EVERY update.
And lastly, when something goes wrong:
Personal experience here but I’m glad I can run any app in Linux with a terminal window and see some computer-speak as to what went wrong. Even if I don’t understand it, somebody will!
Windows often just tells me “No.” and the only option is: “OK”. Or blue screen errors are purposely obfuscated, and worst case advice is “Hi my name is Josh D. A Microsoft support volunteer. Have you run Windows Update? Updated drivers? Reinstall the whole OS to be sure, I guess.”
I’m sincerely not trying to be smug here. The aversion to the terminal is like 99% psychological. People ideally read manuals to figure out how to use their new air fryer, so I don’t think it’s too outlandish to say “Hey learn a couple simple phrases to install and update your system.”
And that’s even if you need the terminal at all.
So many people are so happy to help if Linux is new and different to you, but I’m so done with people mocking it as “not ready” and “unusable by the average person” because somebody tried installing an .exe in Ubuntu or loading up Gentoo once without reading anything, and ran screaming back to Windows.
Human brains are incredible things. I think we’ve just been stuck in some weird culture that makes learning scary and intimidating because it’s easier to sell us push-button-o-matics (with trackers and ads of course!) that way.
P.S: My entire games library, even my discs Windows won’t even bother with, run beautifully, on Nvidia, using Wayland, with 2 monitors, on OpenSUSE Tumbleweed.
P.P.S: Also I do plenty of art, sometimes even get paid for it, and hereby proclaim that Adobe, Autodesk, and their ilk can go screw themselves. Great software, but It’s not worth the headaches of user-hostility and gouging subscriptions. I don’t miss them.
Flatpak as a software distribution solution already exists and is already widespread.
Flatpak is far from perfect
- bloated
- sandboxing causes confusion
- interacting with it in CLI can be interesting
- all packaged libraries rely on the developer of the package you installed to update
The user to whom I was replying asked for a replacement to Windows’ .exe. Flatpaks are that, but much better.
They are bound to be bloated and self-serviced, just like .exe.
KDE Discover and GNOME Software eliminate the need to use CLI.
Now all we’re missing is the universal enforcement piece, which I think is non-trivial. It might take off organically but as per my example above, I’m not hopeful.
“Universal enforcement” meaning what? On its face your proposal sounds fundamentally antithetical to what linux is. It’s an open source environment, meaning literally anyone can create software and post it online. Are you wanting all directories to only accept flatpak? I don’t think that would go over well.
You highlight the issue: Linux users like it to be fragmented. So unless Valve forces consolidation, it will stay a mess, and it will continue to repel average users. If that’s what we want, cool. Let’s just stop calling every year the year of Linux, because that will never be the case.
Requirement: let me play the video games I want to play that have anticheat
A stiff requirement
They run well on Linux, go complain to the devs who don’t allow them.
