Maybe work on making life less shitty so people don’t drink more?
Anthopology has provided clear evidence, in all times, in all tribes and continents, the percentage of people that will abuse substances that affect the mind has been steady, and there is nothing anyone can do about it, they will find the substance in the wilderness if it is not in the market.
Alternatively both politically and economically certain entities will use this weakness to control and manipulate people, either by promoting one, or by criminalizing another. Miami became big and important during prohibition because politicians would travel down there to drink and … whatever else they needed. Bootlegging lasted twice or more after prohibition was reverted, mostly because industrial production wasn’t there to cover the need/market.
Opium smoking was common in Europe among the elites all the way to early 20th century. The poor just smoked cheaper stuff.
The WHO are hypocrites than need to hang high and dry
We should all just take some acid…
You don’t need an ad, or a warning of the risks, you know it is there for the past 50+ years and the right guy that sells it. Just like prozac or ritalin, if you can afford the prescription
Has this comment any relevance to mine, or is that the joke because mine didn’t? 🫨
It is hard to tell because your comment can’t hardly be related to anything or understood within the discussion … so don’t complain on top
😄nice
I give up. Who?
World health organisation
RIP bash.org.
Isn’t this already common knowledge? No one is drinking alcohol because they think it’s good for you.
People: drink alcohol to help them survive being exploited under capitalism
WHO: “best I can do is tell you that you’re going to die sooner”
Also, I don’t know if anyone’s researched this, but I’m 99% sure the stress chemicals your body generates from being a wage slave and living paycheck to paycheck your entire life are far more carcinogenic than alcohol. Maybe that should come with a label too.
The facts are alcohol doesn’t help anyone to survive shit. We know that it’s the opposite, it makes life of people that consume it more miserable.
It instead accumulates together with the stress you experience within your life. It adds more stress, not removes it. Cancer is just one thing, but alcohol is very disrupting to your endocrine (hormones) system, mental health.
What you’re doing is a form of denialism. That denialism comes precisely from what those labels are addressing. You’re being constantly exposed to the image of alcohol as something to enjoy, a pleasure, relief. It’s constantly reinforced by movies, TV shows, media, advertisements.
It’s not about knowledge. It’s about exposure. If you’re constantly exposed to an image of alcohol as a positive thing in your life then you will deny it’s impact despite the facts, science, and knowledge
The facts are alcohol doesn’t help anyone to survive shit
Hard disagree… I did it just last night.
Not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.
Not all problems from alcohol come from alcoholism.
There was a thought process that alcohol could apply some health benefits below a certain consumption level.
It has been now accepted that there is no “safe” amount of alcohol.
That’s not the same thing as saying it doesn’t help you survive shit.
Alcohol did help people survive in the past.
Beer was a very common way to create a potable water source in the past and provided calories that could be preserved over time.
Nowadays, the use of alcohol as a preservative isn’t necessary. A reevaluation of alcohol in all its forms in the modern context shows that it causes a net harm to health, even at low volumes.
Wow! Finally! 🎉🎉 It’s astonishing that it took so many decades. We knew, we always knew that alcohol causes cancer. Now we also know that the risk is significant from any amount. And of course, it’s not just cancer.
Those labels, they really work. Like, the society to big extend quit smoking thanks to those labels.
Policies curbing smoking weren’t popular at the time, people criticized them for being too much of an inconvenience and ineffective at the same time. But they really worked and our society became better and healthier because of them. Funny, how watching the debate about alcohol now, reading people’s comment here, you can actually relive this experience now just years later. When people say “they should focus on X instead”, and things like that, that’s a form of denialism
Ban all advertising for alcohol, too, please
You can’t advertise alcohol on the TV in my country. Only exception is beer.
There hasn’t been an ad for alcohol on US TV for decades and this had no effect, other than saving alcohol industries for wasting money competing with each other in that area.
“I love football on tv, shots of Gina Lee, hangin’ with my friends, and twins.” …something-something “and I love you too. It’s the love song!”
-Alcohol ads used to have the best jingles.
Because you see ads today that means they were always there? Isn’t there any basic train of thought anymore, is everyone now living in still pictures? Why are so many people here denying the article I provided earlier where it was saying that NBC after “50” years it begun having liquor ads again.
" Isn’t there any basic train of thought anymore…"
No, ads, television, and social media destroyed our attention spans.
Now the only tv ads that play are Lawyer ads, Insurance ads, and Pharmaceutical Ads. By comparison, Alcohol ads coming back doesn’t seem half-bad.
Australian sports fields are covered in alcohol logos So the entire time you are watching football with your children, they are exposed
What is the legal drinking age in Aus? When the Kuwait war started there were kids sent to fight in an unheard land before, and they did and some came back and still couldn’t drink legally in the US. You can drive at 16, on a mandatory draft you could be drafted as young as 16, but you have to be 21 to drink and 18 to buy cigarettes. You can sell crack and crystal-meth on the streets, illegal weapons, flesh, easy when you are 15, but you have to pay a homeless drunk to buy you wine or a pack of Camels.
That is your free market hypocrisy at work.
How else can I explain it, there are millions of children dying because of food and water shortages, but WHO thinks alcohol labels will benefit peoples’ health …
Somebody get us some rope …I agree that there are much bigger problems, but those bigger problems have solutions that are not allowed under capitalism and USA imperialism, so labels is all we’re allowed to fix 🤷
The legal drinking age in Australia is 18 years old, and it has always struck me as odd that it’s so high in the USA
Kids in the US not only abuse alcohol more than any other place in the channel they are used as traffickers for illegal substances due to their less severe criminal treatment. Of course this weight is carried by the lower economic class. In anonymous interviews there was consensus though, it was easier for them to get drugs and guns than alcohol and cigarettes. That’s because they had to pay an adult to get it for them, because they are selling everything else.
All this is a structural part of stability of capitalism as you very well state. Unfortunately the formula of that stability is imposed on all other “dependent” states, and in some cases in extremes (Brazil, Phillipines, …).
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Got nuts, but if you’re worried about people drinking to much work on making it easier to get by as working class. The shorter lifespan is just less getting crushed by the weight of my living expenses.
Surely shaming people and making them feel bad for their choices will work this time, not just cause more animosity in the world. People with drinking problems usually do so to escape something, to bad we can fix those underlying issues.
Yes please. Sick of the double standard. Can’t buy flavoured nicotine anymore but can still buy sickeningly flavoured liquor.
It’s poison, quite literally. State sponsored leathal posion. But it makes money and it’s legal, so it’s very cool.
Making it illegal won’t solve any problems.
I didn’t say they should make it illegal. But stip being hypocrits about it. They still need studies to legalize marijuana, because there isn’t enough data for it to be save and jada jada. Okay, but we have more than enough data that shows just how bad and dangerous both alcohol and cigarettes are.
yes it will, it will criminalize the poor while there will be more profitable legal alternatives for the rich …
The alcohol lobby is pretty strong in the US. Good thing we dropped out of WHO. Now we can poison ourselves in peace.
The father of history I believe 4th century BC writes about some Greek mercenaries returning from an expedition in Persia, where one brother wanted his brother killed so he can become the king of Persia, and while walking North they came up on an #Armenian town where they were given food and shelter. He describes the hosts having some large ceramic containers with wine and “straws”, where each drunk from the container.
Alcohol is pretty old, and so is its abuse. There is a difference though when a community collectively make wine for their own consumption and pleasure, and an industry mass producing something with toxic chemical additives to preserve and modify taste/flavor, and have an interest in “pushing” it to a larger and larger market. Same with drugs, and just about anything else. Just examine a woman’s shampoo commercial, the movement, the background, the joy, of using it and tell me they are not resembling the experience to an LSD trip. The woman sudenly is out of her ugly apartment in smokey Chicago in the middle of winter and is running in slow motion in a field full of flowers in the sun, with colors flashing everywhere, her smiling with no reason … purple haze …
Reforming capitalism to be humane and environmentally friendly is just as much an illusion as it is toxic as a political agenda. It is not possible. You can’t just slap warning label on grenades and then hand them off to kids to go play, then ask them to ship to Iraq to kill natives for the good of their “country”. It is too risky to sell anti-inflamatory medication without prescription but it is ok to be paid 1/3 of what a marketing associate makes to go and repare lines during a hurricane … because the elec.company needs to keep its record up of providing service 99.99% of the time. Or its stock price may drop!
WHO needs to go work on ebola epidemics and contain them, but also work on hunger, thirst, bacteria in wells and creeks, shelter, children vaccination, and stop teasing alcohol and tobacco companies for bribes and pocket support.
Labels need to be on all food, too, in the US of A. All of our food is cancerous.
I may not live in Nebraska, and haven’t been there for years, but living in a relatively active agricultural country in Europe, nearly 90% of food in the grocery store is now owned by US subsidiaries. When I first came I remember experts bragging that GMOs will never be allowed or enter the EU. Now Monsanto is a native EU corporation, based in Germany with the excuse Bayer (ex Nazi corporation) bought Monsanto, not the other way around. Being so large now, together with BASF and a couple of other giants, you think politicians in Germany will stop them and turn against them, and what becomes OK in Germany is mandated all over the EU. Then we have the leading laboratory of hybrids and GMOs called the Netherlands who make tulips smell like onions and onions smelling like roses, and garlic looking like an apple.
The whole world is so doomed because of capitalism nobody has a clue anymore what we can do and how it will ever stop.
Can we do all petroleum products too?
this product is causing mass extinction of an estimated X thousand species
You don’t have a choice on the matter, so why waste bandwidth with empty proposals? Consumer tendencies and ideology is an illusion to keep movements away from threatening economic interests of the industrial/banking world. Change can never come from consumer modification.
Of course we do. See Big Tobacco.
I see big tobacco just fine, and consumers didn’t hit big tobacco, the US government did by stepping on falsified findings of the ills of 2nd hand smoke. No move was made against tobacco till the US signed trade agreements with China to allow Big Tobacco to sell in the world’s #1 smoking market. Look back at that date, then follow stock market prices of BT after the date. PM and RJR diversified, even put a foot into Big Pharma taking up their market.
Still, when you sum up all control substances including psychotropic recipied substances, the grand total hasn’t changed a bit. The quality of the market changed, the quantity didn’t. The poor kept smoking the rich just got Prozac
I see big tobacco just fine, and consumers didn’t hit big tobacco, the US government did by stepping on falsified findings of the ills of 2nd hand smoke.
What do you mean “falsified findings?”
I see big tobacco just fine, and consumers didn’t hit big tobacco, the US government did by stepping on falsified findings of the ills of 2nd hand smoke.
What do you mean “falsified findings?”
There is no evidence today of the ills of 2nd hand smoke, so how did this support back then came about the 2nd hand smoke is just as dangerous?
There is so much false rhetoric and propaganda in addictive substances it is pathetic. Just search around on medical centers treating addictions, look for nicotine, being accused for cancer, heart disease … there has never been any evidence that other than a psychological addiction that nicotine alone causes any harm. If you suffer from hypertension and have weak vessels, yes you can die from it, but you can die from coffee or just getting scared.
How the fuck could second hand smoke be safe if first hand smoke isn’t? Isn’t smoke inherently unsafe to breathe? Even wood fire smoke can cause cancer, you aren’t supposed to breathe smoke!
you go learn science and research methodology then go make up your own stuff, till then just research sci.journals on what they deduced. Most urban street air is much more toxic and dangerous than inhaling 2nd hand smoke in a bar
Nicotine, a harmless substance, liquefies in such a high temperature that it can hardly make it through the filter and into your lips in gaseous form, so people saying you are spitting nicotine by breathing smoke are full of crap and illusions (I don’t see religion being banned for that).
Carbon monoxide? Carbon particles and biproducts of burning carbo-hydrates, as long as our lives are surrounded by vehicles the exhaling of smoke from a smoker’s mouth is negligible.
But it stinks! Aaa… but you smell like industrial aromatics, perfumes, deodorants, detergents … working on a Caterpillar bulldozer stinks but I don’t hear anyone banning them
If you mean more traumatic images in people’s faces, fuck off.
Why are you against this? I thought it was shown the advertising is reasonably affective?
Because it’s traumatic imagery being shoved in people’s faces. I don’t give a shit whether it works.
I already don’t smoke and never will - but I have to be exposed to that shit, just looking at the wrong part of a shelf. You could probably put pictures of exploded rat carcasses and starving children on there, apropos of nothing, and yeah no kidding it’ll impact sales!
No practical goal justifies putting this Rotten.com gore and shock content on commodity consumer goods. You wanna reduce sales? Tax it more. Don’t commit psychological warfare against anyone who glances upward at a gas station.
What I’ve learned over the past five years is that you have to be very careful with this kind of mandate, or it will make people despise and doubt your whole organization. I actually think that this kind of warning label will increase the amount of cancer people get, because they’ll start smoking cigarettes again, which are much worse.
Edit: To clarify, the reason people would start smoking cigarettes is not because it’s an alternative to alcohol; it’s because they would lose faith in health and safety warnings altogether. It’s stupid, but people are stupid.
You will not get very far with calling people stupid. It takes months sometimes for me to have a glass of beer or wine, and very rarely anything stronger, I don’t need it, never liked the feeling of having too much of it.
When I lose my concentration and trying hard to figure something out half a cigarette make my mind work again … I don’t think it is the nicotine though, because vaping with high content of nicotine did nothing other than keeping me from going outside to smoke. I wouldn’t generalize though because the effects can be different for different people, even with tea. I can drink 20 cups of coffee a day, and fall asleep with half a cup next to my pillow, I can drink chamomile and some other herbal teas they say they relax and calm you down, and I’ll be up all night. Black tea has a higher hit than caffeine for me, maybe my caffeine blood content never drops low enough to notice :)
You will not get very far with calling people stupid.
On the contrary. This is why most companies try to make their UXs foolproof. It’s the general wisdom of engineers to assume that the user is stupid. It is this sense in which I mean “people are stupid,” not something directed at anyone in particular.
Once in a while both bosses and obedient puppets branded engineers pay the price of their false assumptions. I suspect the reason users, not companies, are increasingly engaged in using and contributing to linux/unix/BSDs is because “corporate engineers” treated people as being stupid.
Oh I agree. I wish software was not so dumbed down these days. Still, you have to admit they’ve gotten pretty far, as it were.
Has smoking and drinking ever been an exclusive or decision for people? I never smoked and wouldn’t have traded drinking for it, as I consider smoking completely disgusting. The effects are also very different.
The bigger issue is that drug laws regarding legality of a substance are completely detached from scientific reality, leaving people with no alternatives but some of the more dangerous substances for recreative use.
Smoking became disgusting when the campain against smoking became effective. In previous decades when people smoked more nobody ever called smoking disgusting. We haven’t evolved that much since the 70s/80s. So what many people perceive as a disgusting habbit today is the effect of conditioning and propaganda. Smokers also had long lasting relations with non-smokers, now it is unthinkable a smoker and a non-smoker to even go out for a coffee together.
I am also surprised this discussion has gone so far so long and nobody has mentioned sugar and its bi-products (soft drinks, candy, sweets, …) Is there such an addiction recognized and known as dangerous? Type-B diabetes has become common even for kids, especially in the west. The sweetest thing you will find in China doesn’t even taste sweet, and if you offer a middle eastern pastry to a Chinese person they put half a spoon in their mouth and think they are about to die.
Super-Size it PLEASE!!!
Smoking became disgusting when the campain against smoking became effective.
Bullshit. My non-smoking parents called smoking disgusting in the 80s and probably before that. It became disgusting when addicts smoked everywhere without consideration for others, like in restaurants or on trains.
So what many people perceive as a disgusting habbit today is the effect of conditioning and propaganda. Smokers also had long lasting relations with non-smokers, now it is unthinkable a smoker and a non-smoker to even go out for a coffee together.
The fuck are you on about? I have no problem doing stuff with smokers and have had nobody ever claiming otherwise. Just don’t smoke in a way that affects me.
I am also surprised this discussion has gone so far so long and nobody has mentioned sugar and its bi-products (soft drinks, candy, sweets, …) Is there such an addiction recognized and known as dangerous?
Nice whataboutism. Btw, as far as I know, the same bodies pushing for regulating smoking and drinking more are also in favor of addressing this issue. And now matter how relevant it might be, your just detailing here.
Type-B diabetes has become common even for kids, especially in the west.
Sorry, I know types 1 and 2 only.
The sweetest thing you will find in China doesn’t even taste sweet, and if you offer a middle eastern pastry to a Chinese person they put half a spoon in their mouth and think they are about to die.
Which China?
There is only one, the Peoples’ Repuplic of China, the other is just a violent invasion and occupation by the US the Taiwanese people have endured.
