ML’s, trots, anarchists… sure that’s infighting.
Anyone who thinks libs qualify as ‘leftist’ is misguided.This feels like such a double edged sword living in the US where Israel-supporting police-loving rich capitalists are widely labeled as the radical left if they dare to suggest that people should get healthcare or maybe we shouldn’t spend trillions blowing up brown people on the other side of the globe.
You know, the land of fucking geniuses where the batshit crazy pedo Nazi choice won the popular vote in 2024 against the Israel-supporting actual-cop capitalist who is right-wing to most of the rest of the world.
I’m not even sure what my point is here, maybe just expressing frustration. The overton window here is so far to the right, and people so passively absorb propaganda every day, that it feels like the entire spectrum of people from leftists to liberals need to form a coalition to at least slow & reverse the movement to the right, even if their end goals are all very different.
What it feels like is that the Republican party was actually supposed to be the controlled opposition to scare people into being comfortable voting for liberals, but then the propaganda worked too well and the mustache twirling evil caricatures got to be in charge instead. At this point I can only hope the level of ridiculousness knocks some sense into more people.
Basically this:
Side point but considering platner’s statements on how he signed up to the military to kill people, re-deployed multiple times (eventually even as a blackwater merc), said he “enjoyed his experience”, how many innocent middle-easterners do you think he killed?
This is accurate, and I think it could hammer it home even harder with “liberal values” instead of “liberals.” The more directly we attack the issues, the harder it is for them to spin it as a personal attack.
People complaining about purity testing on the left and the test is whether they would vote for former abu ghraib guards with SS skull tattoos
I posted this above, but considering platner’s statements about how he signed up for the military to kill people, and went back multiple times (even as a merc), how many innocent middle-easterners do we think he killed? He’s definitely murdered at least a few innocent people.
He wore his blackwater cap to get a rise of people. His unit made a makeshift mortar from grenade launchers to keep bombing urban areas after it got forbidden due to the high civilian murder count. It’s definitely more than a few.
This. I can understand an American not understanding the history of a symbol, the confederate flag comes to mind, but the eagerness to murder to make sure America is top dog is big red flag.
I don’t really take stalk in how people vote in a liberal democracy, its built to dismantle class consciousness. Vote however your internal values and material conditions dictates, but please don’t act like voting will save us from fascism.
Not at all but if someones internal values dictate they vote for a blackwater mercenary then I have a good indication of what kind of person I’m dealing with.
That’s your choice to make and passing judgment doesn’t seem to have any material consequence. Compare that to a Palestinian, why should they care what kind of asshole we elect to office, when they care about whether that asshole will keep giving money to Isreal? They have different material conditions but I would not disparage their values over that choice. This idea that a choice is universally good or bad regardless of context is used to police our history, not just our voting. It feels very liberal coded.
It might not stop fascism, but it did allow fascism to take hold. Voting did let the genie out of the bottle in a new and horrifying way.
When exactly did fascism stop in the states? Was it after the Civil War ended slavery but didn’t give blacks the right to vote? Or when we gave them the right to vote but also sent their men to die in Vietnam? Or did it end with the USSR while we supported the genocide in Palestine? Fascism in the states exists on a spectrum and voting is often choosing which direction it will creep towards.
Donald Trump isn’t creeping, he’s speed running, and voting did put him in office. Also fascism did not exist during the civil war it was invented in 1919.
Fascism was named in 1919, it’s been practiced since god crapped out the second cave man.
What do you think fascism is?
Unquestionable authoritarian force, outside of that it is literally all debatable and just outlines of different types of approaches and tactics to achieve political goals via that level of authoritarianism. If you want to define it as what was written in the 1919 manifesto specifically that would be a specific brand, or plan, of fascism, which was different from the later brands of Italian and Spanish Fascisms, which differed from McCarthyism, which differed from Jim Crowe, which were all different from the fascism of The Roman Legion, The Spartans, The Caesars, or The Crusades. All were fascism.
Don’t be a pedant, it’s annoying and pointless.
But also, there’s some people out there who will call it ‘criticizing liberals’ because they call anyone they disagree with a ‘liberal’. And they’re never ‘leftist infighting’ because whoever they’re fighting with is very conveniently a ‘liberal’.
You sound like a person who identifies as a leftist but is constantly labeled a liberal. I wonder why people do that to you? From your ignorant perspective, it must appear both random and personal, simultaneously. I bet it pisses you off.
Words have meaning. Liberalism is a right-wing ideology. Leftists do not believe in capitalism. Read a book.
You are talking about Libertarians, not Liberals.
I am not.
Read a goddamn book. Holy shit.
Can you define, what is a tankie?
A talkie is a motion picture that has an accompanying soundtrack, allowing you to hear the actors in it talking.
lol, but I’m guessing you meant ‘tankie’? Which is odd for you to bring up, because I didn’t use that word at all. It seems like you might already know what a tankie is, if you’re able to tell I was referring to them.
But sure, I’ll take a crack at a definition for you. But only quid pro quo – after I define ‘tankie’, I want you to define ‘liberal’, okay? That’s only fair.
Tankie: A person who (at least nominally) holds leftist, communist, socialist views and thinks it’s a wonderful idea to enforce those views with (among other things) actual tanks … even against, say, unarmed protesters. While (at least nominally) economically leftist, they often hold some very right-wing conservative social views and are usually keen on enforcing those with abundant state violence as well. Always a big fan of countries like the USSR, China, and North Korea, and usually will not entertain any criticism of anything those countries have ever done. Usually considers ‘the west’ in general and the United States in particular to be the greatest evil the world has ever seen (calling them and them alone ‘imperialist’ – a term that can never apply to anyone else), and will ‘critically’ (uncritically) support absolutely any country that stands in opposition to them … even if that means supporting Islamic theocracies or kleptocratic oligarchies. Most importantly, they have very little tolerance for differing viewpoints and would eagerly silence differing viewpoints using state violence if given the opportunity.
Okay, now define ‘liberal’ in your own terms.
Liberal.
This definition is very much too concise.
Thank you for being kind enough to recognize autocorrect causing problems.
I asked because it highlights who is causing leftist infighting by labeling people as tankies when said person disagrees with their points of view.
To answer your request, a liberal is someone that supports liberalist values. Liberalist values are ones that value individual rights over the rights of all people. Often, it’s presented as “the right of the individual to X,” not considering whether or not it actually helps all people equally or just a select few, and often it is benefitting only a select few. They employ a nonscientific approach to the social sciences (particularly political and socioeconomic sciences), prefer to function on what usually would seem to benefit themselves, and inso reject Marxist theory or theories built off of it such as Leninism while ignoring the historical evidence of it being the only successful threat to capitalism effective enough for capitalists to consider it a threat.
If you wanted a good starting point for identifying liberal values in ones ideologies, here’s a solid starting point.
So, a communist who values individual rights is still ‘liberal’ to you?
(Also, I should probably clarify: Not every communist/socialist is a tankie. Not even every fan of the USSR/China/etc is a tankie, as long as they can admit that those countries do have faults and flaws. I consider ‘tankie’ to be a very specific category of people.)
Yes, I do consider them at least partially a supporter of liberalism, wouldn’t you? That’s what liberal has represented since its inception.
Virtually all communists I know are vocal about the problems in those countries when surrounded by people that are educated about them. However, that’s rarely what you see on here, which is where critical support is important.
That’s what liberal has represented since its inception.
Definitions vary.
To me, “liberal” means someone who supports individual rights, representative democracy, and capitalism.
I might enjoy individual rights, but I’m kind of meh on representative democracy, and very much against capitalism.
Virtually all communists I know are vocal about the problems in those countries when surrounded by people that are educated about them. However, that’s rarely what you see on here, which is where critical support is important.
Hm… Critical of them in secret, eh? I’d love to see some of those secret conversations, then.
Not in secret per say, it’s more like this meme
Bro gave the liberal definition of a tankie. 😂
This comment gave me aids.
No refunds.
I see that a lot less than western liberals who cosplay as leftists complaining about being accurately criticised.
Sounds like something a liberal would say
Oh hey, found the liberal! Would you like a reading list?
Kinda proving my point there, buddy.
I think they forgot a /j tag.
I hope you’re right.
c/politicalmemes in a nutshell
That place needs to be renamed. Absolutely no memes are there
B-but they constantly post “tankies” as an ugly wojack!! What more do you want?!?!
“educating a liberal” and it’s just an ML harassing another leftist for having the wrong opinion on China.
Not knowing history can do that sometimes
“an ML harassing another leftist for having the wrong opinion on China” and it’s just feds or Western Chauvanism
“disagreeing with my yellow peril ranting is harassment!”
Liberals do tend to have more capacity for self-doubt and questioning their own ideology and that of their colleagues. Politically this becomes a weakness compared to conservatives, who tend more to be pragmatic team players willing to ignore even large imperfections in each other to achieve a common goal.
Lol
But also, anyone who isn’t apart of the one true Vanguard is a liberal or a fascist.
