RATM supported Sendero Luminoso.
Fuck RATM.
The Shining Path has been widely condemned for its excessive brutality, including violence deployed against peasants, trade union organizers, competing Marxist groups, elected officials and the general public.[2]
…
The Shining Path’s retaliation to this was one of the worst attacks in the entire conflict, with a group of guerrilla members entering the town and going house by house, killing dozens of villagers, including babies, with guns, hatchets, and axes. This action has come to be known as the Lucanamarca massacre.[39] Additional massacres of civilians by the Shining Path would occur throughout the conflict.[26][40][41]
…
American rock band Rage Against the Machine released a music video for their 1993 song “Bombtrack” as a response to the arrest of Abimael Guzman the previous year. The video expresses support for Guzman and the Shining Path, featuring various clips of the organization’s activities, as well as showing the band in a cage to mimic Guzman’s imprisonment.[145]
Every life matters, and the reason we cannot make progress is because people who think they are ‘good’ are shunning and actively casting away people with less than desirable traits.
Nazis suck, racists suck, bigots suck, but they weren’t born that way. Their lived experience led them to the place they are in. How do you get them out? Practice what you are preaching: compassion.
Edit: this comment here explains my point better than my own https://ponder.cat/comment/1872062
Every life matters
You started from a faulty assumption. Nazi lives don’t matter.
Did Abimael Guzman’s life matter?
I have to look him up on Wikipedia, so he doesn’t really matter to me. He’s not a Nazi though, so maybe?
Sorry it’s just the way it is with Nazis. The only good one is a dead one. Just accept it.
Guzman has the blood of Peruvian peasants on his hands.
Ok but we’re talking about Nazis, and the principle stands.
Hahahaha! No! Not with neo-nazis. Look with racists and bigots I’ll agree, try compassion first. I’ve done that and for most racists and bigots I’ve confronted it has worked. I didn’t change them to be a champion of minorities but usually I can convince someone to behave nicer. Neo-nazis on the other hand are not just regular racists and bigots who say terrible things but don’t actually do anything. Neo-nazis are the extreme and if they’re an adult regardless of their life experience they know what they’re saying is wrong. So no, I have no compassion and will never have compassion for an adult who is a neo-nazi. Period.
I’m glad to see that the strategy of compassion has worked for you in some cases. It’s a nuanced topic, but I firmly believe that if we want to be progressive & inclusive we need to adopt a mindset of ‘no man left behind’.
Again, it’s nuanced and it takes a lot of effort. Perhaps I am oversimplifying things too much, on the other hand, I think that we will not be better off by casting out anyone.
You have a big heart, and that’s a good thing. I could not disagree with you more. ‘No man left behind’ is a noble code to live to but I think that following it to an absolute sense defeats it’s purpose. ‘No man left behind’ to me means anybody on my team is never alone. The key is they have to be on my team and in this case everyone who isn’t a nazi is on my team. Neo-nazis have made real threats against people who I’m on the same team with and I would be leaving them behind if I didn’t oppose neo-nazis. If it comes to it, yeah Nazi lives don’t matter.
I’m not saying hunt them down and kill them. I’m saying take the ones who have actually done terrible things, put them in prison. Tell them to either grow up and change, or stay behind bars until they’re so insignificant that there’s no need to hold them anymore or until they die naturally. Holding neo-nazis accountable shouldn’t be controversial. If that requires taking their life I won’t shed any tears, but that is absolutely a last resort.
Thanks for your insight. I should have made clearer in my original comment that me saying that all lives matter does not equate to ‘Neo-nazi’s should walk free’. If the life of you or a person you care about is in immediate danger, then obviously that threat needs to be dealt with accordingly. We actually agree on pretty much everything.
I think for me the difference for now is in the recognition that while we as a civilization seem to be heading towards big trouble, most of us privileged enough to sit and type comments on an online discussion forum are not in actual immediate physical danger. It is therefore useless to me to think about crossing the line of taking lives, either for me or by me.
All I wish for is that when it is all said and done, we can all focus on improving lives, instead of ruining them. There is a lot of work that needs to be done before that though…
No, you’re missing an entire level here. Racists suck, bigots suck but Nazis? Nazis round up people and gas them to death and then stack the bodies in the dirt like cord wood. It’s a different level.
Here’s the introduction (aka “Pillar I”) to the plan currently being implemented: https://static.project2025.org/2025_MandateForLeadership_FULL.pdf
Some highlights:
From page 20 of the project: “Vought (officially in charge of OMB after being confirmed recently) writes that the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) should establish a “reputation as the keeper of ‘commander’s intent,’””
From page 21: " In Chapter 1, former deputy chief of staff to the President Rick Dearborn writes that the White House Counsel “must take seriously the duty to protect the powers and privileges of the President from encroachments by Congress, the judiciary, and the administrative components of departments and agencies.”
Page 28: “When a new President takes office, he will need to decide expeditiously how to handle any major ongoing litigation or other pending legal matters that might present a challenge to his agenda”…“, the President should hire a counsel with extensive experience with a wide range of complex legal subjects. Moreover, while a candidate with elite credentials might seem ideal, the best one will be above all loyal to the President”
Page 32, regarding the office of presidential personnel (DOGE): “Playing “bad cop” in a way that other White House offices cannot (including serving as the office that takes direct responsibility for firings and hirings).”
Nazi lives matter a little. You can tally them up to keep score.
That still only counts as one!
That’s why you take the ears to help count.
300 nazi scalps
30 years later and more relevant than ever… That’s not a good thing. Continue to rage.
Love that slogan.
23 nazis disagree with this lol
They need to release one new song, it would be appropriate. Don’t let the fascists win.
Removed by mod
If you think the fault lies with the democrats, you haven’t been paying attention to the machine they are raging about.
We’re not talking about Palestine currently. Unless you’re purposefully trying to derail the conversation in order to blunt opposition to ORAGNE and his South African chimp.
Incidentally, what do you think of ORAGNE policy on Gaza?
Trump got elected because of dumb pro-genocide corporate Democrats who decided they should send Mark Cuban out to tell everyone how much they love corporate interests & Dick Cheney.
You didn’t answer my question about the current administrations Gaza policy, nor will I waste time trying to discuss the minutiae of your statement.
Either answer my question directly, or the conclusion that can be drawn is that you are an agent of the current administration trying to distract people from actually mounting a useful opposition against the current attempt to kill America as we know it.
If I thought proud-Zionist Biden’s terrible policy on Palestine was indefensible, which Kamala said she couldn’t think of anything she’d do differently while pledging her unconditional support to Israel, on what planet do you think my position is in favor of Trump’s policy? They are both indefensible and if you want to know which is worse, it very likely will end up being Trump, but it hasn’t been realized thus far.
It is clear already, in your mind if someone dares criticize the almighty Democrats then they must support Trump, or be “an agent of the current administration.”
I am curious though, how’d that so-called “useful opposition” that you surmounted work out for you in the last election?
I’m Canadian. Do something about your problem, you’re fucking up my country too.
Pretty sure that is your inbred-monarchy-supporting country.
We get it. We live in a shitty, gerrymandered two party system thanks to FPTP and there is no true anti-war or anti-capitalist party. What’s your point?
Saying “both sides bad” without mentioning one side being much, much worse is just being disingenuous. Not just that, but it attracts people on the worse side, who then will not accept criticism of their own side. Look at Jimmy Dore for a perfect example of this kind of audience capture.
In this example, you have Biden on one side, who was being complacent in a genocide while saying publicly that he wants a ceasefire deal, but not doing what was in his power to actually make it happen, like cutting off arms and funding to Israel. On the other side, you have Trump who wants to nuke Gaza and commit ethnic cleansing himself (I’m sorry, I meant to say “displace Palestinians”) and rebuild it as a paradise in his image without Palestinians.
Let’s just say Netanyahu publicly wanted Trump to win this past election, and there’s a good reason why.
Fascism never wins permanently.
Save a life, punch a nazi
Arm the homeless
Man, screw RATM. They’ve sold out. They did a bunch of anti-Biden crap because of the Palestine shit. Look what that got them.
They also arguably lost Florida for Al Gore which caused him to lose the election.
More like Rage For The Machine.
What do you mean by Palestine shit? There is a genocide happening there right now, fuck Israel.
Honestly. The Israeli government took it farther than what happened to them. And they call it a genocide. Because they are projecting their insecurity they have for performing their own genocide on the GAZA People.
It might help your comment if you replaced some theys and thems with the actual people you’re referring to. It’s very unclear whether you’re talking about Hamas, the Israel government, the Palestine people living in the Gaza strip, the Israeli people, etc. There’s a lot of different groups involved in this conflict, all with their own history and motives. It’s important to be clear about who is doing what.
I see how that looked off now. But yes. The Israeli government has gone far too far in their destruction of Gaza and its people.
I’m going to my states senate office on Monday with a megaphone and will not leave until the police are called. I’m going to write out what I want to say because I’m too heated to speak freely. Naysayers need not reply.
I’m going to my states senate office on Monday
Monday is Presidents day, are you sure they’ll be open? I know a couple state employees and they have the day off. This could vary by state and office I guess. I’m just saying maybe check the website or something.
They were open! It wasn’t just me there either. 🤘
Drove all the way to NYC to see them with Run the Jewels after the pandemic. 100% worth it, one of the best shows I’ve ever been to.
Tim Commorford is weird to watch though. He kinda hops awkwardly from foot to foot.
I saw them in Cleveland on that tour. Zach had hurt his foot so he sat on the monitor speaker the whole time, but the rest of the guys made up for it.
I paid a LOT of money to get good tickets, and it was 10000% worth it. I’d never seen rage live and figured I might not get to again, so spend the money. Also I’m an rtj fan.
It’s so disappointing to hear Killer Mike spit revolutionary lyrics like in ‘close your eyes’ only to find out IRL he’s into lame shit like black capitalism.
Yeah. The music still slaps though.
RATM’s bassist is into some weird fringe right-libertarian stuff too if I recall
Nobody’s perfect 🤷♂️
or they changed. 30 years is a long time.
their debut was released
- 3 years after the fall of Berlin wall
- a year after the dissolution of USSR
- 9 years before the September 11 attacks
- 15 years before iPhone
- 24 years before the election of a reality tv entertainer/real estate conman as POTUS
- China wasn’t a superpower back then
- EU didn’t exist in its current form
- Apartheid was still an actuality
- internet wasn’t omnipresent
How was China not a superpower then?
They were easily a superpower since before they were backing Vietnam and Korea in our shitty wars with them.
China’s GDP was lower than Canada’s. Economic strength is not the only factor of a superpower, but it’s significant. It’s hard to project power effectively without sufficient wealth to fund those efforts.
Fair enough. How many resources did the US waste in Vietnam and Korea fighting someone who was not a so called superpower?
Quite a lot. The US did the same thing in Iraq and Afghanistan too. Who cares about who the enemy is or how many people die if they military industrial complex is making bank?
A country doesn’t need to be a superpower to project some power, but very few rise to the level of global hegemony. I think China is probably in the superpower tier today. The belt and road initiative is classic economic hegemony shit.
CLIP YOUR STRINGS YOU FUCKING PHILISTINE
That’s Tom Morello, he can have 5 feet of string hanging off the end for all I care
As suggested listening following RATM, may I suggest American Idiot by Green Day. You may find similar themes in that album.
Any other suggestions on how we can fight fascism by giving money to record companies?
Who said you have to buy anything? Are you new to the internet?
The band you are looking for is Fugazi. Totally pure in their resistance to destructive capitalism.
So what have they done besides sing a few songs so that people can think that they’re making a difference by listening to their iPods?
And no, I’m not going to listen to them. I’m boycotting American products wherever I can.
I have personally seen the guitarist knock a racist out with his guitar. So that’s something.
Not to mention the art they created certainly did more good than the average keyboard warrior trying to call music meaningless.
