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I’m not willing to give my life.
To roughly paraphrase Patton. Don’t die for your cause, make some other bastard die for theirs.
That’s always been the goal, the point is more one of commitment. How much are you willing to lose to see your end through?
That’s not to say that only those who max out commitment are allowed, just that you should know where your limits lie. Have frank discussions about your limits such that your allies can make contingency plans should your limits be reached, as you would do for those that martyr themselves.
Nailed it.
This is a good meme in that it works for both sides in the US
I’m of the opinion that the top half is almost as bad.
We are ruled by very old dragons, possibly even “grand” dragons. What’s happening now more closely resembles removing of a mask than a complete 180 shift in policy.
It’s still something which deserves to be opposed as strongly as possible. It’s just… the honest character of a nation founded on breaking every promise it ever made to the original occupants of this land, fighting a war with itself over the right to own people, joining the colonial game within four years of “the frontier” being closed, refusing to ratify the Treaty of Versailles, bombing Laos and Cambodia just because they’re in close proximity to a nation which was the current target of our 75+ year endless war, and violating international treaties regarding ethical treatment of political prisoners in the manner seen in Abu Ghraib or with the “enhanced interrogation” which took place in Gitmo.
This is the bad place.
What tf has the United States stood for, if not colonialism, racism and genocide?
I’m glad USAians are starting to despise their country as much as the rest of the world now that it’s starting to happen to them, but please keep the lusting after the good ol days that never existed to the boomers.
Note that the meme doesn’t talk about what the United States stood for
Why is lemmy filled with this?
What do you want from this interaction?
Do you want them to feel shame for not seeing the truth you’ve seen? What are you trying to accomplish?
Things are bad. Things are getting worse. People are learning this in real time, and the endless commentary of “it always has been” and “nothing’s new” is not helpful or productive. It doesn’t even make sense. People are coming around to your point of view - that things are bad. Maybe, as they learn why and how things are bad, they will learn about some of the things that have always been bad, but they won’t learn it from a comment like this.
Things are bad. Things are getting worse. We don’t need more cynicism and apathy. We need to help people understand that things are bad, and things are getting worse.
What do you want from this interaction?
Presumably, making people understand that the US (and western Europe) represent the most evil shit imaginable in the past 5 centuries including essentially the genocide of the entire continent of America and the colonisation of the entirety of south america, Africa and most of Asia, and that at no point was it worth dying for.
Sorry, in the future I’ll be more respectful of people who say they’ll defend colonialism, racism and genocide with their lives.
“I was once willing to give my life for what I believed my country stood for” [emphasis mine]
Past tense. They did not say they will defend colonialism, racism, or genocide with their lives. They said they believed their country stood for different things, and now they know differently.
This isn’t about respect or civility. It’s about productivity and purpose. I’m not telling you to play nice. I’m asking you to try to help people understand your point of view when they’re clearly in the process of changing their mind about how the world works. It’s an opportunity to spread awareness and you’re wasting it on snark and pointless cynicism.
You must have interpreted the image differently because to me it very much sounds like they’re saying things used to be good and now the country became bad. In fact, that’s the word being used.
And, frankly, I’m tired of people singing praises of the good old days when they melted the skin off of children in Cambodia and sent death squads to South America. I don’t care what they think they were fighting for, the onus of not loving genocide is on them.
I don’t interpet it differently.
I am telling you that as they realize things are currently bad, you can help them realize the ways in which things have always been bad. That the fact that current affairs are even possible suggests a progression of events leading up to this, rather than a sudden and reversible shift in political paradigms.
The whole point is that they don’t know what you know. If you want them to know what you know, help them understand it.
If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
Alright, I’ll follow your lead and inform people the United States has always stood for those things, but also not tell anyone that the United States stands for those things cause they might get mad and become even more racist.
If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
As a vet, this is exactly on point
For a moment I was wondering what a veterinarian had anything to do with this
Why was there so many sick animals in Vietnam?
animal rights, and, like, in a pinch, I’ll take anyone who can cut me open and pull out a bullet without puking, then stitch it up competently. that might be important pretty soon.
I was a medic, I can do that too!
so you’ve got many of the virtues of a vet! no access to K though.
unless…???
Unfortunately no. Lol
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To me those are not mutually exclusive.
I am still willing to give my life for what I believe this country stands for. This country stands, and right now those values are st odds with some people and policy’s within this countrys government, and part of what this country stands for is standing agianst tyranny, agianst threats, foreign and domestic. No person is above this cardinal rule. We usurped tyrannical rule once before, we will surely do so agian.
This country stands, and right now those values
Which values? Colonialism? Genocide? White supremacy? Enslavement of the global south? Anticommunism? Burgers?
part of what this country stands for is standing agianst tyranny
Bull.shit. I’m Spanish. Go ahead and tell my murdered ancestors during fascism how glad they are that the US had perfect relationships with Franco. Go ask people in Chile what they think of Pinochet and his US-Sponsored fascist coup. Or go ask the progressive leaders of the middle east like Mosaddegh, who were eliminated from power through destabilisation. And that’s fucking nothing compared with what the people of Vietnam, Laos or Korea endured during the most intensive bombing campaigns in human history (Laos was bombed by the US with more explosives than the entire explosives used in WW2). Your country IS THE TYRANT, it doesn’t stand against tyranny.
does it stand against tyranny and stuff?
I feel like it never has, except by accident when it was defending it’s colonial possessions or intended colonial possessions.
we, you and I and whoever the fuck else; we could give it a shot. you wanna?
I suppose emphasis on what I believe it stands for. The U.S.'s grey history date back to the pilgrims, but at times the people have rallied to fight agianst tyranny and I believe we can and will do so agian. I want to believe this country stands for freedom and stands agianst tyranny, and that we, the people will fight for this.
…grey? the first white guy in several centuries to land here was such a fucking monster with all the slavery and rape, he made shiro ishi look like a reasonable compassionate human being.
fuck the country. why do we need it? what do you stand for? what do the people you know stand for? why stop at the border?
Luigi is the only example of someone who followed through though.
The guy who tried to shoot trump before the election counts too.
Your sense of history is brutally stunted.
Last time was when the 5th largest city by population was a hill in New Jersey over a winter huh?
Yes?
I was never willing to give my life for anything and that’s still true.
Id give my life to protect your family, too. =/
I’m willing to give my life for the right cause but not willing to kill someone. It’s harder to find how to make that work nowadays
also, dying isn’t suuuuuper useful. like, I’d generally rather you not. unless I need your liver or something, I cannot think of a reason you dying would do anything for me. I’d really rather you made me pancakes or something.
if it helps, fascists are already largely dead and unrecoverable as humans.
especially since the “law and order” folks are so insistent on trying to kill or torture us.
live and let live, but those who live by the sword will ultimately die by the sword.
No. This country is not a Nazi country. Take it back.
It’s worse. It’s MAGA
