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As someone who wrote that check and nearly had it cashed when I was younger, all I want to say is these guys are playing with fire. Right now a lot of people I know aren’t seeing the damage from cuts yet and don’t care about immigration issues.
But there is a line and once it’s crossed things will not be fun for anyone.
This is what capitalism and unregulated speech gets you
I’m not willing to give my life.
To roughly paraphrase Patton. Don’t die for your cause, make some other bastard die for theirs.
That’s always been the goal, the point is more one of commitment. How much are you willing to lose to see your end through?
That’s not to say that only those who max out commitment are allowed, just that you should know where your limits lie. Have frank discussions about your limits such that your allies can make contingency plans should your limits be reached, as you would do for those that martyr themselves.
I’m of the opinion that the top half is almost as bad.
We are ruled by very old dragons, possibly even “grand” dragons. What’s happening now more closely resembles removing of a mask than a complete 180 shift in policy.
It’s still something which deserves to be opposed as strongly as possible. It’s just… the honest character of a nation founded on breaking every promise it ever made to the original occupants of this land, fighting a war with itself over the right to own people, joining the colonial game within four years of “the frontier” being closed, refusing to ratify the Treaty of Versailles, bombing Laos and Cambodia just because they’re in close proximity to a nation which was the current target of our 75+ year endless war, and violating international treaties regarding ethical treatment of political prisoners in the manner seen in Abu Ghraib or with the “enhanced interrogation” which took place in Gitmo.
This is the bad place.
There’s a lot of propaganda to kids, including the idea that the military is purely defensive. Especially pre-Iraq. And then we recruit people straight out of high school. You want to help during natural disasters? Join this organization. Don’t worry the president never calls us up to go fight wars…
If we waited until 22 we’d lose a ton of recruits that actually learned history in college and from asking around their community.
Bingo. I call them dragons too. I also think that this is why, unlike in 2020, we aren’t seeing the same level of unrest. The mask being revealed is more of the same for Americans. It only confirms what we already thought we were living under.
So, more of the same, that doesn’t spur our communities to moving. If anything it makes us more cautious. I know in my community I’ve floated social alliances but everyone I’ve talked to is very hesitant and cowed. No one wants to be on a list and no one wants to end their current life over becoming a saboteur just yet.
You’re completely right about American history too. In our foundational case law, Chief Justice Marshal stated it was right to take the Native lands by force because “we” have the “right of conquest.” Looking back at the original treaties and contractual documents and when seeing every one was broken in some way by America— if that isn’t enough to convince a person of the character of the country then I don’t know what is.
The best ideals that we want for this country still exist. They exist inside you and me and in our hope and humanity. The Wheel of Fate always turns. We can and we will turn the wheel eventually in the direction of humanism and progress. We will do this together, and become dragon slayers, if we must.
This is a good meme in that it works for both sides in the US
Nailed it.
What tf has the United States stood for, if not colonialism, racism and genocide?
I’m glad USAians are starting to despise their country as much as the rest of the world now that it’s starting to happen to them, but please keep the lusting after the good ol days that never existed to the boomers.
We kind of hoped we were turning over a new leaf. Nope, same fucking leaf. Same rotting monetary elite underneath it all.
Why is lemmy filled with this?
What do you want from this interaction?
Do you want them to feel shame for not seeing the truth you’ve seen? What are you trying to accomplish?
Things are bad. Things are getting worse. People are learning this in real time, and the endless commentary of “it always has been” and “nothing’s new” is not helpful or productive. It doesn’t even make sense. People are coming around to your point of view - that things are bad. Maybe, as they learn why and how things are bad, they will learn about some of the things that have always been bad, but they won’t learn it from a comment like this.
Things are bad. Things are getting worse. We don’t need more cynicism and apathy. We need to help people understand that things are bad, and things are getting worse.
What do you want from this interaction?
Presumably, making people understand that the US (and western Europe) represent the most evil shit imaginable in the past 5 centuries including essentially the genocide of the entire continent of America and the colonisation of the entirety of south america, Africa and most of Asia, and that at no point was it worth dying for.
Presumably, making people understand that the US (and western Europe) represent the most evil shit imaginable in the past 5 centuries including essentially the genocide of the entire continent of America and the colonisation of the entirety of south america, Africa and most of Asia, and that at no point was it worth dying for.
Would it have been worth dying to fight against it? South Americans, Africans, Asians… do you believe they had right and reason to oppose US aggression? Up to and including warfare? Genuine question. I think there’s an argument to be made there.
I ask because, well… this you?
The war will end with negotiations, the negotiations will most likely end up being unfortunate for Ukrainian interests and beneficial to the Russian government, and the 3 years of meat grinder could have been avoided if negotiations had happened from the start.
What a classic. The true contrarian. Western societies have often commited great evil in the name of colonial expansion and tyranny over foreign nations - we agree!
But… also Ukraine should give up? And the west should let Russia have Ukraine - in fact should have let Russia take Ukraine years ago, because people shouldn’t die fighting a war against a tyrant expanding their territory? They should just negotiate in the face of unchecked aggression by a hostile superpower?
How did negotiations go for the Native Americans?
Either oppose tyranny, colonialism, and genocide across the board, or don’t. I’m not interested in this half-assed tankie bullshit that one group of political superpowers can be the root of all evil, while another group should be appeased and negotiated with for doing the same shit.
Sorry, in the future I’ll be more respectful of people who say they’ll defend colonialism, racism and genocide with their lives.
“I was once willing to give my life for what I believed my country stood for” [emphasis mine]
Past tense. They did not say they will defend colonialism, racism, or genocide with their lives. They said they believed their country stood for different things, and now they know differently.
This isn’t about respect or civility. It’s about productivity and purpose. I’m not telling you to play nice. I’m asking you to try to help people understand your point of view when they’re clearly in the process of changing their mind about how the world works. It’s an opportunity to spread awareness and you’re wasting it on snark and pointless cynicism.
You must have interpreted the image differently because to me it very much sounds like they’re saying things used to be good and now the country became bad. In fact, that’s the word being used.
And, frankly, I’m tired of people singing praises of the good old days when they melted the skin off of children in Cambodia and sent death squads to South America. I don’t care what they think they were fighting for, the onus of not loving genocide is on them.
I don’t interpet it differently.
I am telling you that as they realize things are currently bad, you can help them realize the ways in which things have always been bad. That the fact that current affairs are even possible suggests a progression of events leading up to this, rather than a sudden and reversible shift in political paradigms.
The whole point is that they don’t know what you know. If you want them to know what you know, help them understand it.
If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
Alright, I’ll follow your lead and inform people the United States has always stood for those things, but also not tell anyone that the United States stands for those things cause they might get mad and become even more racist.
If instead you want people to continue believing what they currently believe, than yes, cynicism and snark is the way to go. Thanks for the contribution.
Note that the meme doesn’t talk about what the United States stood for
As a vet, this is exactly on point
For a moment I was wondering what a veterinarian had anything to do with this
Why was there so many sick animals in Vietnam?
Dr. George Washington‽‽‽ That cannot be his real name.
animal rights, and, like, in a pinch, I’ll take anyone who can cut me open and pull out a bullet without puking, then stitch it up competently. that might be important pretty soon.
I was a medic, I can do that too!
so you’ve got many of the virtues of a vet! no access to K though.
unless…???
Unfortunately no. Lol
damn.
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To me those are not mutually exclusive.
I am still willing to give my life for what I believe this country stands for. This country stands, and right now those values are st odds with some people and policy’s within this countrys government, and part of what this country stands for is standing agianst tyranny, agianst threats, foreign and domestic. No person is above this cardinal rule. We usurped tyrannical rule once before, we will surely do so agian.
This country stands, and right now those values
Which values? Colonialism? Genocide? White supremacy? Enslavement of the global south? Anticommunism? Burgers?
part of what this country stands for is standing agianst tyranny
Bull.shit. I’m Spanish. Go ahead and tell my murdered ancestors during fascism how glad they are that the US had perfect relationships with Franco. Go ask people in Chile what they think of Pinochet and his US-Sponsored fascist coup. Or go ask the progressive leaders of the middle east like Mosaddegh, who were eliminated from power through destabilisation. And that’s fucking nothing compared with what the people of Vietnam, Laos or Korea endured during the most intensive bombing campaigns in human history (Laos was bombed by the US with more explosives than the entire explosives used in WW2). Your country IS THE TYRANT, it doesn’t stand against tyranny.
Hope. The US has historically been a rough country for almost everyone. It has also historically been “the land of opportunities.” The fact that once again, as in the gilded age, our “leaders” have forgotten the one redeeming quality of our broken old democracy, has once again extinguished the idea of hope.
As Churchill once said, “you can trust that the Americans will eventually do the right thing. They’ll just try everything else first.” The fact that we don’t think that is at all true, isn’t good for anyone.
Stop your weird nationalism: the US is a colonial empire as are most western European countries. Accept it, and move on, you’re being an american exceptionalist right now, which is a racist position.
does it stand against tyranny and stuff?
I feel like it never has, except by accident when it was defending it’s colonial possessions or intended colonial possessions.
we, you and I and whoever the fuck else; we could give it a shot. you wanna?
I suppose emphasis on what I believe it stands for. The U.S.'s grey history date back to the pilgrims, but at times the people have rallied to fight agianst tyranny and I believe we can and will do so agian. I want to believe this country stands for freedom and stands agianst tyranny, and that we, the people will fight for this.
The only thing grey about the history of the US is the fact that they pretend to be about freedom (for white male landowners). It’s all black to this very moment.
…grey? the first white guy in several centuries to land here was such a fucking monster with all the slavery and rape, he made nobotsuke kishi look like a competent benevolent administrator.
fuck the country. why do we need it? what do you stand for? what do the people you know stand for? why stop at the border?
Luigi is the only example of someone who followed through though.
The guy who tried to shoot trump before the election counts too.
Your sense of history is brutally stunted.
Last time was when the 5th largest city by population was a hill in New Jersey over a winter huh?
Yes?
I was never willing to give my life for anything and that’s still true.
Id give my life to protect your family, too. =/
I’m willing to give my life for the right cause but not willing to kill someone. It’s harder to find how to make that work nowadays
also, dying isn’t suuuuuper useful. like, I’d generally rather you not. unless I need your liver or something, I cannot think of a reason you dying would do anything for me. I’d really rather you made me pancakes or something.
if it helps, fascists are already largely dead and unrecoverable as humans.
especially since the “law and order” folks are so insistent on trying to kill or torture us.
live and let live, but those who live by the sword will ultimately die by the sword.
No. This country is not a Nazi country. Take it back.
It’s worse. It’s MAGA
