A 2025 Tesla Model 3 in Full-Self Driving mode drives off of a rural road, clips a tree, loses a tire, flips over, and comes to rest on its roof. Luckily, the driver is alive and well, able to post about it on social media.
I just don’t see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week.
For no reason?
They are running proprietary software in the car that people don’t even know what is happening in background of. Every electric car needs to be turned into an open source car so that the car cannot be tampered with, no surveillancing, etc etc
Everyone should advocate for that because the alternative is this with Tesla. And I know nobody wants this happening to other car manufacturers cars as well
This represents the danger of expecting driver override to avoid accidents. If the driver has to be prepared enough to take control in an accident like this AT ALL TIMES, then the driver is required to be more engaged then they would be if they were just driving manually, because they have to be constantly anticipating not just what other hazards (drivers, pedestrians,…) might be doing, they have to be anticipating in what ways their own vehicle may be trying to kill them.
Absolutely.
I’ve got a car with level 2 automation, and after using it for a few months, I can say that it works really well, but you still need to be engaged to drive the car.
What it is good at… Maintaining lanes, even in tricky situation with poor paint/markings. Maintaining speed and distance from the car in front of you.
What it is not good at… Tricky traffic, congestion, or sudden stops. Lang changes. Accounting for cars coming up behind you. Avoiding road hazards.
I use it mostly like an autopilot. The car takes some of the monotonous workload out of driving, which allows me to move my focus from driving the car to observing traffic, other drivers, and road conditions.
I just don’t see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week
That’s because it won’t, that’s because Elmo musk is gasp a liar. Always has been. That robo taxi is actuyab older lie he used a couple of years prior, but he dusted it lfft and re-used it.
Anytime Elmo says that he’s confident they can do it now, he means that they’re nowhere near a real product. Anytime he says “next year” it means that it won’t ever happen. Anytime he says that they alrethave a product, it just needs to me produced, it means that it’ll never happy
He is a vaporware con man who has been cheating people (and mostly the US government) out of billions
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
SpaceX, arguay his most successful company that he actually did with his leadership is a shit show of lies. According to him we’d be having colonies on Mars by now, it’s what he took 3 billion dollars in funding for, and he literally isn’t at 1% of that. Yet, he keeps claiming, within a few years now! Three billion dollars and he managed to blow up a banana over the Indian ocean, and obliterate a launch pad
If I commit fraud in the thousands, take thousands and then don’t deliver, I go to jail. He does it with countless billions and he’s still out there. Bit alas, his behavior finally is catching up with him, Tesla is going off a cliff bow that nobody wants to drive a Nazi brick anymore
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
Cheers for the guy/gal that maintains an updated list of all his bullshit, check it out sometime
If it was open source tech people could check it and see if it really is capable for themselves but because it’s not we don’t know what it is missing to be way way better
Nah, on the 5 levels of autonomous driving, telsas as at level 2
Elmo isn’t even close but that wint stip him from just lying about it because that is what Elmo does best
The car made a fatal decision faster than any human could possibly correct it. Tesla’s idea that drivers can “supervise” these systems is, at this point, nothing more than a legal loophole.
What I don’t get is how this false advertising for years hasn’t caused Tesla bankruptcy already?
Because the US is an insane country where you can straight up just break the law and as long as you’re rich enough you don’t even get a slap on the wrist. If some small startup had done the same thing they’d have been shut down.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
I’ve argued this point the past year, there are obvious safety problems with Tesla, even without considering FSD.
Like blinker on the steering wheel, manual door handles that are hard to find in emergencies, and distractions from common operations being behind menus on the screen, instead of having directly accessible buttons. With auto pilot they also tend to break for no reason, even on autobahn with clear road ahead! Which can also create dangerous situations.
Well, because 99% of the time, it’s fairly decent. That 1%'ll getchya tho.
To put your number into perspective, if it only failed 1 time in every hundred miles, it would kill you multiple times a week with the average commute distance.
Someone who doesn’t understand math downvoted you. This is the right framework to understand autonomy, the failure rate needs to be astonishingly low for the product to have any non-negative value. So far, Tesla has not demonstrated non-negative value in a credible way.
You are trying to judge the self driving feature in a vacuum. And you can’t do that. You need to compare it to any alternatives. And for automotive travel, the alternative to FSD is to continue to have everyone drive manually. Turns out, most clowns doing that are statistically worse at it than even FSD, (as bad as it is). So, FSD doesn’t need to be perfect-- it just needs to be a bit better than what the average driver can do driving manually. And the last time I saw anything about that, FSD was that “bit better” than you statistically.
FSD isn’t perfect. No such system will ever be perfect. But, the goal isn’t perfect, it just needs to be better than you.
FSD isn’t perfect. No such system will ever be perfect. But, the goal isn’t perfect, it just needs to be better than you.
Yeah people keep bringing that up as a counter arguement but I’m pretty certain humans don’t swerve off a perfectly straight road into a tree all that often.
So unless you have numbers to suggest that humans are less safe than FSD then you’re being equally obtuse.
Humans do swerve off perfectly straight roads into trees, I know because I’ve done it!
Can you confirm that to the best of your knowledge you are not a robot?
A simple google search, (which YOU could have done yourself), shows it’s abut 1 in 1.5 million miles driven per accident with FSD vs 1 in 700,000 miles driven for mechanical cars. I’m no Teslastan, (I think they are over priced and deliberately for rich people only), but that’s an improvement, a noticeable improvement.
And as a an old retired medic who has done his share of car accidents over nearly 20 years-- Yes, yes humans swerve off of perfectly straight roads and hit trees and anything else in the way also. And do so at a higher rate.
What is the failure rate? Unless you know that you can’t make that claim.
Many Tesla owners are definitely dead many times, on the inside.
…It absolutely fails miserably fairly often and would likely crash that frequently without human intervention, though. Not to the extent here, where there isn’t even time for human intervention, but I frequently had to take over when I used to use it (post v13)
Even with the distances I drive and I barely drive my car anywhere since covid, I’d probably only last about a month before the damn thing killed me.
Even ignoring fatalities and injuries, I would still have to deal with the fact that my car randomly wrecked itself, which has to be a financial headache.
That’s probably not the failure rate odds but a 1% failure rate is several thousand times higher than what NASA would consider an abort risk condition.
Let’s say that it’s only 0.01% risk, that’s still several thousand crashes per year. Even if we could guarantee that all of them would be non-fatal and would not involve any bystanders such as pedestrians the cost of replacing all of those vehicles every time they crashed plus fixing damage of things they crashed into, lamp posts, shop Windows etc would be so high as it would exceed any benefit to the technology.
It wouldn’t be as bad if this was prototype technology that was constantly improving, but Tesla has made it very clear they’re never going to add lidar scanners so is literally never going to get any better it’s always going to be this bad.
…is literally never going to get any better it’s always going to be this bad.
Hey now! That’s unfair. It is constantly changing. Software updates introduce new reversions all the time. So it will be this bad, or significantly worse, and you won’t know which until it tries to kill you in new and unexpected ways :j
Saying it’s never going to get better is ridiculous and demonstrably wrong. It has improved in leaps and bounds over generations. It doesn’t need LiDAR.
The biggest thing you’re missing if that with FSD **the driver is still supposed to be paying attention at all times, ready to take over like a driving instructor does when a learner is doing something dangerous. Just because it’s in FSD Supervised mode it slant mean you should just sit back and watch it drive you off the road into a lake.
Your saying this on a video where it drove into a tree and flipped over. There isn’t time for a human to react, that’s like saying we don’t need emergency stops on chainsaws, the operator needs to just not drop it.
What false advertising? It’s called “Full Self Driving (Supervised)”.
For many years the “supervised” was not included, AFAIK Tesla was forced to do that.
And in this case “supervised” isn’t even enough, because the car made an abrupt unexpected maneuver, instead of asking the driver to take over in time to react.The driver isn’t supposed to wait for the car to tell them to take over lol. The driver is supposed to take over when necessary.
The attention required to prevent these types of sudden crashes negates the purpose of FSD entirely.
No if you look at Waymo as an example, they are actually autonomous, and stop to ask for assistance in situations they are “unsure” how to handle.
But even if you claim was true, in what way was this a situation where the driver could deem it necessary to take over? It was clear road ahead, and nothing in view to indicate any kind of problem, when the car made a sudden abrupt left causing it to roll upside down.
They can’t stop and ask for assistance at 100km/h on a highway.
I hope Tesla/Musk address this accident and get the telemetry from the car, cause there’s no evidence that FSD was even on.
According to the driver it was on FSD, and it was using the latest software update available.
https://www.reddit.com/user/SynNightmare/
They can’t stop and ask for assistance at 100km/h on a highway.
Maybe the point is then, that Tesla FSD shouldn’t be legally used on a highway.
But it probably shouldn’t be used anywhere, because it’s faulty as shit.
And why can’t is slow down to let the driver take over in a timely manner, when it can break for no reason.
It was tested in Germany on Autobahn where it did that 8 times within 6 hours!!!According to the driver, with zero evidence backing up the claim. With how much of a hard on everyone has for blaming Elon musk for everything, and trying to drag teslas stock down, his accident is a sure fire way to thousands of Internet karma and e-fame on sites like Reddit and Lemmy. Why doesn’t he just show us the interior camera?
Looking at his profile he’s milking this for all it’s worth - he’s posted the same thread to like 8 different subs lol. He’s karma whoring. He probably wasn’t even the one involved in the crash.
Looked at his twitter which he promoted on there too, and of course he tags mark rober and is retweeting everything about this crash. He’s loving the attention and doing everything he can to get more.
Also he had the car for less than 2 weeks and said he used FSD “all the time”……in a brand new car he’d basically never driven……and then it does this catastrophic failure? Yeh nah lol. Also as others in some of the threads have pointed out, the version of FSD he claims it was on wasn’t out at the time of his accident.
Dudes lying through his teeth.
The worst part is that this problem has already been solved by using LIDAR. Vegas had fully self-driving cars that I saw perform flawlessly, because they were manufactured by a company that doesn’t skimp on tech and rip people off.
I wouldn’t really called it a solved problem when waymo with lidar is crashing into physical objects
NHTSA stated that the crashes “involved collisions with clearly visible objects that a competent driver would be expected to avoid.” The agency is continuing its investigation.
It’d probably be better to say that Lidar is the path to solving these problems, or a tool that can help solve it. But not solved.
Just because you see a car working perfectly, doesn’t mean it always is working perfectly.
call*
Are those the ones that you can completely immobilize with a traffic cone?
Probably Zoox, but conceptually similar, LiDAR backed.
You can immobilize them by setting anything large on them. Your purse, a traffic cone, a person :)
Probably makes sense to be a little cautious with the gas pedal when there is an anything on top the vehicle.
That and if you just put your toddler on the roof of the car or something or trunk for a quick second to grab something from your pocket…VROooOMMM baby gone.
Do I need to pay extra for that feature?
Nope! That one’s free.
A human also (hopefully anyway) wouldn’t drive if you put a cone over their head.
Like yeah, if you purposely block the car’s vision, it should refuse to drive.
You say that like it’s a bad thing lol if it kept going, that cone would fly off and hit somebody.
The same is true when you put a cone in front of a human driver’s vision. I don’t understand why “haha I blocked the vision of a driver and they stopped driving” is a gotcha.
Yes lol
Lidar doesn’t completely solve the issue lol. Lidar can’t see line markings, speed signs, pedestrian crossings, etc. Cars equipped with lidar crash into things too.
I oversold it in my original comment, but it still performs better than using regular cameras like Tesla did. It performs better in weather and other scenarios than standard cameras. Elon is dumb though and doesn’t think LiDAR is needed for self-driving.
Let me guess……you watched mark rober’s video? Lol
I’ve watched a few random ones over the years. No idea who he is.
Elon took the wheel because that person made a mean tweet about him
“It crashed!”
“Yes but it did it all by itself!”
Except for the last 0.05 seconds before the crash where the human was put in control. Therefore, the human caused the crash.
The problem with automation is complacency. Especially in something that people already have a very hard time taking seriously like driving where cell phone distraction, conversations, or just zoning out is super common.
“Kill me” it said in a robotic voice that got slower, glitchier, and deeper as it drove off the road.
EXTERMINAAAAAATE!!!
Anything outside of a freshly painted and paved LA roads at high noon while it’s sunny isn’t ready for self drivings it seems
Actual self-driving vehicles, sure. Just not whatever the fuck Tesla is doing.
I’m not sure about even the more advanced self-driving cars. Shit gets fucked with snow and all kinds of other stuff.
Flummoxes many human drivers too tbh.
I’m confident that they all still need lots of work for advanced weather, but you’re not seeing a Waymo or a Zoox drive into a tree for no reason.
Or silly tunnels you can’t get out of.
Tunnels are extra dangerous. Not because of the likelihood of an accident, but because of the situation if an accident happens. It blocks the tunnels easily, fills it with smoke, and kills hundreds.
Except newly built tunnels in rich countries.
I mean, if Elon was my dad, I’d probably have some suicidal tendencies too.
More like the abusive step-father
I use autopilot all the time on my boat. No way in hell I’d trust it in a car. They all occasionally get suicidal. Mine likes to lull you into a sense of false security, then take a sharp turn into a channel marker or cargo ship at the last second.
Isn’t there a plane whose autopilot famously keeps trying to crash into the ground. The general advice is to just not let it do that, whenever it looks like it’s about to crash into the ground, pull up instead.
All the other answers here are wrong. It was the Boeing 737-Max.
They fit bigger, more fuel efficient engines on it that changed the flight characteristics, compared to previous 737s. And so rather than have pilots recertify on this as a new model (lots of flight hours, can’t switch back), they designed software to basically make the aircraft seem to behave like the old model.
And so a bug in the cheaper version of the software, combined with a faulty sensor, would cause the software to take over and try to override the pilots and dive downward instead of pulling up. Two crashes happened within 5 months, to aircraft that were pretty much brand new.
It was grounded for a while as Boeing fixed the software and hardware issues, and, more importantly, updated all the training and reference materials for pilots so that they were aware of this basically secret setting that could kill everyone.
The Being 787 Max did that when the sensor got faulty and there was no redundancy for the sensor’s because that was in an optional addon package
Even worse, the pilots and the airlines didn’t even know the sensor or associated software control existed and could do that.
Pretty sure that’s the Boeing 777 and they discovered that after a crash off Brazil.
Exactly. My car doesn’t have AP, but it does have a shed load of sensors and sometimes it just freaks out about stuff being too close to car for no discernible reason. Really freaks me out as I’m like what you see bro we just driving down the motorway.
For mine, it’s the radar seeing the retro-reflective stripes on utility poles being brighter than it expects.
They have auto pilot on boats? I never even thought about that existing. Makes sense, just never heard of it until just now!
They’ve had it forever. Tie a rope to the wheel. Presto. Autopilot.
I’ll point this post out to Wall Street Bets, Maersk stock will pop 10%+ overnight.
That’s not how boats (ouside of hollywood) work, tho
They’ve technically had autopilots for over a century, the first one was the oil tanker J.A Moffett in 1920. Though the main purpose of it is to keep the vessel going dead straight as otherwise wind and currents turn it, so using modern car terms I think it would be more accurate to say they have lane assist? Commercial ones can often do waypoint navigation, following a set route on a map, but I don’t think that’s very common on personal vessels.
That’s similar to commercial airliners right?
I am never getting into a self driving car. I don’t understand why we are investing money into this technology when people can already drive cars on their own, and we should be moving towards robust public transportation systems anyway. A waste of time and resources to… what exactly? Stare at your phone for a few extra minutes a day? Work from home and every city having robust electric transit systems is what the future is supposed to be.
I’m not a fan of self driving cars, but saying that people are able to drive cars is a stretch.
In general I am opposed to machines being in direct control of weapons. I am also definitely of the opinion that there are lots of people who shouldn’t be driving.
Back when I still believed, I was excited because I wanted get in my car and take a 90-minute nap until I arrived at work.
With public transportation, you can only be half-asleep or you’ll miss your stop.
I used to dream of watching a movie then falling asleep in bed while my car drove the 8 hours to my folks’ house.
But I’d want that beast to be bristling with sensors of every kind. None of this “cameras only” idiocy.
Someday. Maybe.
I have a 45 minute high speed train commute to a busy end-of-line station. I can sleep, read, work, or just stare out the window and think.
Same commute is probably twice as long by car during rush hour.
I wish I lived in a place that took rail infrastructure seriously. But all our trains appear to be built out of sheet iron and about four nails, oll movement is accompanied with eeeeeeeeeccccchhhhhhhheeeeeekkkkkkkscccreeeeeeeekkkkeeeeek
People crash cars far, far, far more than Tesla FSD crashes “per capita”. People are terrible drivers on average.
.
self driving is the future, but im glad im not a beta tester.
You’re probably right about the future, but like damn, I wish they would slow their roll and use LiDAR
Elon Musk decided they absolutely would not use lidar, years ago when lidar was expensive enough that a decision like that made economic sense to at least try making work. Nowadays lidar is a lot cheaper but for whatever reason Musk has drawn a line in the sand and refuses to back down on it.
Unlike many people online these days I don’t believe that Musk is some kind of sheer-luck bought-his-way-into-success grifter, he has been genuinely involved in many of the decisions that made his companies grow. But this is one of the downsides of that (Cybertruck is another). He’s forced through ideas that turned out to be amazing, but he’s also forced through ideas that sucked. He seems to be increasingly having trouble distinguishing them.
He really hasn’t. He purchased companies that were already sitting on profitable ideas. He is not an engineer. He is not a scientist. He has no training in any design discipline. He takes credit for the ideas of people he pays. He takes credit for the previous achievements of companies he’s purchased.
What is it going to fucking take for people to finally actually see the grifter for what he is? He’s never had a single good fucking r&d idea in his life 🙃 he has wasted billions of dollars researching and developing absolutely useless ideas that have benefited literally no one and have not made him any money. It is absolutely incredible how powerful his mythos is, that people still believe him to be or have been some kind of engineer or something. He’s a fucking racist nepo baby. He’s never done a single useful thing in his life. He wasn’t the sole individual involved in creating PayPal (and was entirely unrelated in turning it into the successful business it became), he didnt found tesla nor is he responsible for any of the technological developments it made (except for forcing his shitty charger design that notoriously breaks down and charges at half the speed that competitors do), he did not found SpaceX and by all metrics involved has been loathed by everyone at the company for the past decade for continuously committing workers rights violations and fostering a racist sexist and ableist work environment. The man has done nothing but waste people’s time stoking his ego and sexually abusing a slew of employees for the past 2 and a half decades.
He’s forced through ideas that turned out to be amazing, but he’s also forced through ideas that sucked.
He’s utterly incapable of admitting that one of his ideas is garbage.
There is a reason he fawns all over Trump and that’s because both of them are of a type. Both of them have egos large enough to have their own gravitational fields but lack any real talent. Look his family up, they’re all like that.
They removed their lidar sensors after the prices had already come down.
Musk has drawn a line in the sand and refuses to back down on it.
From what I heard the upcoming Tesla robotaxi test cars based on model Y are supposed to have LIDAR. But it’s ONLY the robotaxi version that has it.
He seems to be increasingly having trouble distinguishing them.
Absolutely, seems to me he has been delusional for years, and it’s getting worse.
Self driving via cameras IS NOT THE FUTURE!! Cameras are basically slightly better human eyes and human eyes suck ass.
i agree
