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This dumbass argument again.
You need an opposition party then. If you keep blaming the voters you are going to keep digging your own grave. In America you have only two parties and legit no opposition party. In this way guess what, FASCISM always wins.
Also Please honestly explain to me, how in the fuck is fascism lite ever going to beat fascism?
“What are you going to do vote for the facists?”
–stays home
“Wait…”
(In all seriousness, the two party system killed us. The first thing we should have could have fixed was ranked choice voting but they would never mandate that because it would break their hold. Also despite my joke above I did vote but I’m not going to get pissy with someone that didn’t the problem is the party not the voter. Unless they voter actively voted red.)
Oh this again? Democratic Party: has our Neo liberalism, refusal to enact progressive policy, and backing of a genocide alienated progressive voters? Disenfranchised voter: damn it we told you a thousand times yes! Democratic Party: No it’s the voters who are wrong.
Maybe Democrats could have tried doing literally anything that people wanted
Zionists are people.
¿Por Qué No Los Dos?
When it was the day of the general election and we were guaranteed to either get mainstream Democrat or Trump 2.0: The Revenge Tour, I could not morally justify any vote that didn’t minimize the chances of Trump winning.
But in the present day, and in the time leading up to the election, god damn the Democrats feel so worthless. Their party probably needs to be completely rebuilt even before the much much worse Republican party. You can’t have the Nice Conservative Party vs the Mean Conservative Party when the latter has gone off the deep end.
But also in the present day, it may already be too late. So keep on writing stern letters, insider trading, and raking in the fundraising while your desperate constituents still have some money and willingness to do something!
Yes thank you, this is the sane response. Sitting here in my neighbouring nation wondering if we’ll be facing invasion in the next year or two, I have no sympathy for people who couldn’t hold their nose and vote for harm reduction. I just can’t understand why so many Americans are too blind to understand that you can have harm reduction, AND oppose the democrats.
Very true. I think we need to do our own version of the ratchet effect. In places that are solidly red we need to vote blue to lighten them up a bit. In places that are blue we need to start doing grass roots efforts to winning local offices and state reps that do represent our issues.
At this point I think it’s all a little moot, I’ll be genuinely surprised if the US ever has a proper democratic election again.
Yes, stop thinking and just follow the herd! That’s surely the solution! \s
Thankfully I live in a state where my vote doesn’t matter at all. jfc.
How many years can the libs keep this up?
ITT:
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cake or death?
-
vanilla cake? Are you a moron?
- some dude who chose not cake
-
This is a problem with decision hierarchies. Usual election - if both parties have policies I can’t support, then I vote for 3rd party knowing it’s a protest vote.
HOWEVER : if the consequences of the election mean that a dictator and malignantly evil person (and their cronies) may get into power then the FIRST consideration MUST be that he doesn’t get into power. So you vote for the most likely way that the calamity can be stopped.
It’s shit, believe me, I know, but them’s the breaks. The problem has been that people have treated this as ‘election as usual’. The fact that sane people are still arguing over this is concerning.
!!A malignantly evil dictator has overtaken your government and is overtaking your country. You need to work together with the other sane people in order to stop this calamity.!!
But… Eggs!
Their job is literally to get elected…
I’m still waiting for whatever the hell is supposed to happen after electoral politics has failed us, because it has.
I was told by people pushing for people to not bother voting in 2024 that voting was meaningless and that Trump would be no different than Harris. People told me that the solidarity of grassroots organization was the only way to see any real change, and that we had to reject the DNC at all costs. Well, we rejected it. What now?
PS: I don’t even mean this sarcastically or to win internet points – that are even more meaningless than on reddit – on this site. I’m actually asking, what are we doing now that this happened?
This is definitely a liberal take. I don’t agree with those who didn’t vote for Kamala, but removing responsibility from people running her campaign when there are obvious glaring issues such as retracting all populist messaging and appealing to non-existent right wingers voting against Trump was a real stinker to say the least. It’s okay to blame politicians who didn’t win for not winning.
God, this is the take I want to see. I’ll take criticism of my voting habits, but it should be proportional to my power. Democrats have more culpability.
You got a fascist elected. Hope your moral purity was worth it
proportional to my power
This is the thing that always kills me. My vote was 100% worthless. Completely performative, just throwing paper to the wind. My state was one of the few that actually went for Harris, my state governor is one of the few actually fighting against Trump, my city has so far done an excellent job fighting back against him, and none of the races were even really close. I’m sure there are many other people, in the other firm blue states just like mine, who couldn’t stomach voting for genocide when they know their vote is just a gesture.
Yep, I live in California. Local ballots are more important for my state than anything federal level, and I still voted for Harris.
I live in the worst part of California where its rural so Republicans win 60% of the vote, and state-wide Democrats win 60% of the vote. Props and city level are the only places I have a meaningful change, especially since my “city” has 5000 people.
So if I vote aginast the Republicans running for the House, my one vote didn’t change much there as the redneck hillbillies who think California is communist are a voting bloc that can’t be swayed, and they never need ot worry about re-election. I still vote for the Democrat, but last elections had two Republicans for the seat, one was backed by Trump, one was backed by Trump’s aids and cabinet officials.
100%
Non-contributing rage bait. The Democrats were wrong. The Democrats still are wrong. And the Democratic presidential candidate was infinitely better than her opposition.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
We now have definitive proof that most people do not.
Nuance motherfucker do you speak it.
“If they dislike my party, they must support the other party, nothing else exists, right?”
“If you dislike pancakes that must mean you LOOOOVE waffles right?”
No bitch thats a brand new sentence wtf is you talking about.
In a two party system, especially when there’s no clear “I don’t like either” option then yes, nothing else exists. When you don’t vote you’re not saying “I don’t like either party” you’re saying “I don’t care which party wins”. If you don’t care which party wins then you’re in support of both parties.
And it’s telling that so many people didn’t care whether the dictator or Democrats won, isn’t it? If you’re making the case between yourself and a megalomaniac, and the majority of Americans shrug and go about their day, what the hell are you doing wrong?
Yes but in discussing politics we are not relegated to the same limitations we have in voting. Thus there is no contradiction between voting down-ballot Democrat, then going home and tweeting “I hate Dick Cheney and the Democrats.”
OP makes a clownish commentary on this. If someone did not vote blue who probably should have, shame on them, but the Democrats are still wrong.
Yes, political discussions are not as limited in options as voting and there absolutely should be a political discussion about the Democratic party. They suck, have sucked and will continue to suck, unless they change.
And I agree that there’s no contradiction. I’d even go as far as to say there was no contradiction in voting for Harris and then tweeting “the democratic candidate sucks”, because you have to vote for someone and Trump (clearly) was the worse option.
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all. The nuances get kicked out when it comes to voting.
My point was rather that if you dislike a party and you don’t vote for them then you are in support of the other party, even if you don’t vote at all
And that is a dog shit point. An easy example: California. Nobody who didn’t vote in CA supported Trump by not voting, unless you don’t know how elections work
Stop trying to blame those not at fault you weird authoritarian
Just because the electoral college is a stupid thing doesn’t mean I’m not right. Had it been a popular vote those non-votes would’ve mattered.
Had it been a popular vote those non-votes would’ve mattered.
Why yes, if it was a completely different situation then it’d be a completely different situation
10/10 you dolt
ok fair but not relevant to my own point post it somewhere relevant next time if you want me to support lol
Ever heard of third parties? I’ve voted Green Party since I could vote. There is the Libertarian, Reform, Constitutional, and several other parties.
Yeah, they’re the non-vote parties. FPTP voting always devolves down to 2 parties, see Duverger’s Law. Even if by some miracle a 3rd party wins (and continues winning) they will eventually kick one of the previous 2 parties out and take their place as the new party in the 2 party system. In practice if my memory doesn’t fail me voting 3rd party hasn’t mattered for over a century because the 2 main parties are so entrenched, so voting for 3rd party is more or less throwing away your vote.
What done is done. Democratic voters PUT TRUMP BACK IN OFFICE to send a message. If the party leaders don’t get the message, then 4 years of Trump were all for not.
Yeah that is the level of self awareness that created this bullshit. Fuck the Democrats. To be clear I voted for Harris but t Still think the Democrats suck
You guys deserve trump.
Like “the democrats weren’t cool and sexy enough, and they didn’t serenade me long enough, they didn’t even have my favorite ice cream flavor”.
This thread is full of it.
There’s no campaign bad enough to justify electing the injecting bleach criminal.
They just should have needed to come out, point at trump and say “if you don’t vote for me you’ll get him”, turn 180 and go to sleep. And should have won like 80-20.
Last night the Democrats official response the Donald Trump’s speech was to praise Ronald Reagan. It somehow here you stand today defending them. Unbelievable
They could have taken an accordion and played a polka while making donkey noises for all I care. When the alternative is a literal criminal that is so dumb he thought planes are invisible, it shouldn’t be about what democrats are doing.
- Cake or death?
- Well… what flavor is the cake? Vanilla? So boring!
You realize the Democrats I’m talking about were elected right? We voted for them. Now they can’t be bothered to do anything? We should just be happy they exist? They should just settle in as the loyal opposition? That’s all I can expect from my representative? What are they good for?
You fucking neoliberals love to pretend like y’all are so against what Donald Trump’s doing. Y’all love this. He’s doing all the things you wish you could do and y’all don’t have to get your hands dirty. Eroding of the middle class, enslaving of the workers, destruction of the regulatory state, and deregulation across the board. Neoliberal wet dream. This is what y’all have been gunning for for 40 years. Not even hiding it anymore. Going on national television as a group and lauding your hero Ronald Reagan.
I’m far, far left of anything the democrats stand for. Universal healthcare, free education, strong unions, respect of minorities, gay marriage, wealth tax, legalized recreational drugs, green energy, and a few others.
So spot on with your analysis, congratulations.
Sure you are.
🙄
Imagine posting this meme when just today the DNC have announced their “new” leadership and it’s just the same as the old leadership, and they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
Just like they would have done nothing when Trumpists did a violent coup if the voting results were different.
Liberals only differ from fascists in degree, not the kind of ideology they follow.
they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
What do you mean? Didn’t you see their tiny signs last night? That’ll sure show him!
Fascism cannot stand against the power of color coordination. (And friendship. Have we tried using the power of friendship?)
I think they were even instructed to be “quiet”. And they all just fucking fell in line.
Imagine posting this meme when just today the DNC have announced their “new” leadership and it’s just the same as the old leadership, and they’ve done absolutely nothing to push back against Trump this whole time.
“But maybe next DNC chair you’ll get a progressive! Vote for us and we’ll give you what you want next time.”
don’t vote and you never have to vote again.
Literally voted for Harris, ya goober.
Degree of minorities murdered matters.
See you might have voted for Harris but people who go online and read comments like “Fuck the Democrats” and “Democrats are Centrists” didn’t. People didn’t vote for Harris because of shit like your comment.
Oh yeah, I’m sure it had nothing to do with people like you yelling at people that they’re monsters for even slightly criticizing the DNC and Harris campaign.
It gave us Trump, twice, consequentially there is very real death and suffering on their hands.
The idea someone would not vote because they read “Democrats are Centrists” online is funny to me.
Millions of people who voted for Biden in 2020 did not show up to vote for Harris in 2024. Trumps numbers hardly changed at all.
It really is that simple, no enthusiasm among the left due to infighting and degrading our candidate.
no enthusiasm among the left due to infighting and degrading our candidate.
First, the democrats are not “the left”. Don’t even pretend. Dick Cheney is on their side and they lauded that, ffs.
Second, we all did our damnedest to bite our tongues over your pro-cop, pro-israel bae, but everyone is well aware she was a piece of shit candidate. “Infighting” isn’t what cost the democrats the vote. “Pushing forward another intensely bad choice and then running a bad campaign that failed to win anyone over” did. You left people stuck between an insane choice and a miserable one. Should they have chosen misery? Sure, but don’t parade around acting like everyone should have proudly accepted the miserable one. That’s the attitude that has cost your country everything. The democrats are continuing to prove they just have no idea how to lead themselves or act in any meaningful way in the face of fascism.
If you’re fighting against the Democrats then you’re promoting fascism. We live in a first past the post 2 party system.
You can have progressive reform or fascism, stop choosing fascism.
Call me when the democrats actually do something to fight fascism then. I predict you’ll continue to side with them as they continue to sit on their asses whining “it’s not allowed!” while your country invades mine. Cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds.
Liberals have any respect for people’s intelligence challenge: impossible
When I see any intelligence from you fuckers, I’ll respect it
If a Democrat’s billion dollar war chest can’t stand against an anonymous online person saying “Democrats are centrists” maybe they shouldn’t be centrists.
What about a hundred million anonymous online persons?
If a hundred million of your constituents are asking you to do something, fucking do it. A candidate can tell their base to shut up, but expecting them to still turn out, as we just saw, is a fantasy.
The majority of people shitting on dems were not dem constituents. They were Republicans. An unfortunate number were dems but far from a majority, going by primary results for the last two decades.
There’s a lot of cocky talk from you about majorities from someone bemoaning an electoral defeat across the board.
Look at this dude, proudly declaring the left’s defeat to Republicans. You some kind of conservative?
People didn’t vote for Harris because her campaign sucked ass, it’s her and her staff who failed to convince people to vote for her, not people who voiced their dissatisfaction with her proposed policy. They need to do better, and if they do, then people excercising their freedom of speech on the internet won’t sway votes away from the party. Idea that people shouldn’t be allowed to complain about the genocide because it voices loudly the dissatisfaction over the party actions and that may lead to lower voter turnout is flawed to it’s core. Those comments are the symptom of the problem, the sign that there is something wrong with the way they directed the campaign, not the source of it. You will get nowhere by silencing the dissidents, you need to take away their reasons to complain, not their means. Until Dems learn this lesson, they won’t win elections again, not with the antiestabilishment vibes and lack of trust towards the government that are prevailent im USA. Not only this messaging of censure won’t work, it will only piss off the electorate and alienate them further. Before the elections I have assumed that this campaign to shame people into voting was a psy op, but it seems like it’s actually their position on the matter, which definitely makes me think they’re controlled opposition at this point. They can’t actually think this kind of messaging helps them in any way, right? This arrogant approach is specifically why Republican electorate hates them. If they want to win, like, ever, they need to work on that.
I’m sorry their message didn’t vibe with you but the Harris policy stances were all on point, minus that shit Walz had to say about Israeli borders. But the vast majority of Americans seemed unaware of the policy stances being on point because of the constant whinging of people online about how they don’t trust her.
Here is an idea, buy Twitter, Meta, Google, WaPo, and TikTok and start propagandizing like the GOP had on their side. She’d probably win by 20 Mil minimum. That’s how fucking easy it is to trick the USA, not even any politics involved, just fuck with the kid’s vibe feeds and watch them destroy themselves. Even talking with you lowers my faith in humanity.
Here is an idea, buy Twitter, Meta, Google, WaPo, and TikTok and start propagandizing like the GOP had on their side.
I’ve recently come around to this idea and I can’t believe we haven’t seen it more often. Facts don’t matter. We need the media, in the unlikely event our democracy limps past this administration. We MUST control the media. That is LITERALLY all that matters.
They weren’t unaware of the policy because of “whining”, but because Dems failed to effectively communicate their proposals. They also failed to combat misinformation from the right, but this I’ll forgive them for this one because at the very least they had opponent in that field that pushed back. That’s not the case for their atrocious campaign that bled voters left and right.
If Americans are unaware or not happy with the candidate stances on various policies, that’s entirely the candidate fault. And when the stances they’re aware of are “I wouldn’t do anything differently than Joe Biden” when JB had to be switched out from the race due to his unpopularity, then the candidate just digs their electoral grave.
You’re entirely missing the point of my previous comment. Dems lost, because they couldn’t make their voters feel like they were the right choice. You’re sarcastic about “vibing” but it’s exactly what required for politician to win an elections. People aren’t wise and don’t delve in deep in policy, as it is excellently shown by morons playing catch up with economic difficulties Trump’s rule already brought. It’s politician job to make their electorate trust them. It is their failure if they can’t (or don’t want to, if they are bought as controlled opposition) make that happen. You really can’t say that “Dems had great campaign but people didn’t like it” because it’s precisely the popularity that makes the campaign great. And no, Harris and her team had terrible campaign, and lost to the opponent that was very easy to trip up and expose. You trying to blame people for not vibing with genocide doesn’t help either. And if me telling you that Dems had bad campaign “lowers your faith in humanity”, then it seems you might be in a cult and not be ready for a mature discussion about the direction that Dems politics will take them. You might want to have that checked out.
I think I’m justified in saying the politicians weren’t the problem. We are. Demonstrably things would be much much much much better if we gave them the power to do something about it.
I’m all for building class consciousness and having people be involved deeply and personally in politics, but USA absolutely isn’t there yet. You need populist messaging and need to make sure people see you in good light if you want to win elections. People didn’t believe Harris nor Biden what they were saying about Trump, even though those things were true. People had few bad years economically, and while they knew it was due to covid, they blamed Dems. It was irrational, just as Trump’s image as a working men ally, but the electorate isn’t moved by rationality, but rather - you got it - vibes. Entire charade about inflation was a lie, but they failed to communicate that. They added fuel to the fire by even acknowledging the illegal immigrants narrative, despite everything showing that both legal and illegal immigrants commited far less crimes on average than USA born citizens. They cracked down on pro-palestinian protests and fed the antisemitic conspiracy theories. It goes on, and on, and on. And I get that you might disagree with me on whenever those things were good or not, but it doesn’t matter, if they can’t make more people think Dems have their best interests in mind. It’s literally the single job they have during the campaign, and if they can’t instill the feeling that people must vote for them or else fascists will win, then it’s on them. They did it wrong. You can’t expect people that doesn’t care about politics to rally up behind them spontaneously, they need to be rallied. You can’t expect people passionate about human lives not to protest a genocide, you need not to support it and not give them a reason to protest. And no, I’m not talking about protesting as in not voting - we already had several rounds of surveys that showed beyond any doubt, that those people in swing states voted almost exclusively for Harris, despite their grievances. It was mostly people who felt neither side had anything good to offer that failed to show up. And it’s those people, who aren’t interested in politics, who just want to do their thing, that Harris and her staff was supposed to convince, but the vibes were off, children died, protestors got maced and locked up, and lies about immigration and inflation were left not debunked. They came out strong after announcement of the ticket and got a record high funds from small value donations, but quickly changed their tune to pro-corporate businesses as usual, and the median voter visibly wasn’t convinced by that. The surveys showed that people felt the economy was bad, so how could the messaging of “we won’t change shit” convince them? Price gouging bit was good, too bad it was dropped stright away within a week. Tim Walz calling the fascist out was very good, but he got muzzled almost immediately. And then what, Liz Cheney? Bill Clinton telling Arabs in Michigan that “Jews were there first”? I mean, come on, you can’t say you believe they did great and that their messaging was impeccable. And even if you somehow do, voters didn’t, and you need at the very least to acknowledge that fact. The messaging was ineffectual, and that’s on Dems. They also cultivated the image of government that is immune to change and stagnant, although that’s not the issue with campaign but with their politics in general, and that made their electorate less interested when very radical change threatened them. Some people were radicalized specifically by this percieved stagnation and voted Trump just for something to change. Harris and her team had a lot of material to work with, but decided to keep to the old and tested playbook instead, which, judging by the elections results, was a mistake. People that were somewhat interested in politics and believed that Trump was bad, voted overwhelmingly for Harris, even if they disliked her or her campaign, but that’s a drop im a bucket. Most people don’t care, and you need politicians to reach them to make them care - or else they might blame them for something bad in their lives, maybe completely unrelated, maybe not, and just vote out of spite for the opposition, or maybe just wallow in apathy and not vote at all. I hope I made my point clearer, if it wasn’t transparent previously.
I voted for those assholes up and down. They still suck.
